[MSJ]

What the fuck man? This is Wilshire tier denial. The goal of the Inchoroi is to SHUT the Outside to prevent their souls from being damned.

Exactly. And,the only place for that to happen is on Earwa. A meaningless world has no manifesting Gods, no sorcery and such. Its why I don't buy into Ajokli creating the IF on the progenitors planet. And, I understand Wilshire's rebuttals and denials. It just makes zero sense. And wouldn't you put 2 And 2 together and realize that the arcane ground is what makes Earwa meaningful? Able to shut off the Outside? Ajokli didn't magic his way to their world because of no connection because its entirely anarcane.

[MSJ]

Actually my thought process was more like I had to insult you to not be too harsh on MSJ (not because of preferential treatment but to help him see the wrongness of his argument). Not sure if it makes sense.

No, quite simply, Tleilaxu doesn't know how to act. He gets mad at me when he says he would kill innocent children with his own hands. Tleilaxu's humor isn't so fucking funny!

[Wilshire]

What the fuck man? This is Wilshire tier denial. The goal of the Inchoroi is to SHUT the Outside to prevent their souls from being damned.

Exactly. And,the only place for that to happen is on Earwa. A meaningless world has no manifesting Gods, no sorcery and such. Its why I don't buy into Ajokli creating the IF on the progenitors planet. And, I understand Wilshire's rebuttals and denials. It just makes zero sense. And wouldn't you put 2 And 2 together and realize that the arcane ground is what makes Earwa meaningful? Able to shut off the Outside? Ajokli didn't magic his way to their world because of no connection because its entirely anarcane.

Can you explain damnation without souls and Gods please? I really don't understand where you're coming from still.
 
How can the universe be meaningless with those things? Or are you saying souls and damnation only exists on Earwa?

[SmilerLoki]

I have found Bakker's quote about an original Insertant.

This is how the question was formulated:

Was Nau-Cayuti fundamentally flawed in the way that Kelmomas was, or am I reading too much into similarities between them?

This is how the answer looks like:

And lastly, it's not the blood that enables the Carapace, its the ability of the brain to functionally emulate that of an original Insertant.

The way I read it myself, Bakker is referring to Nau-Cayuti as "an original Insertant" because the question compares Kelmomas with him. Though I do see how it can be read as referring to some unknown original Insertant who both Kelmomas and Nau-Cayuti are able to successfully emulate. I don't see how either of those readings can be shown as the only correct one with the information we have available at this point.

[Wilshire]

ZealouslyTL's original question had a lot of bullets. The two that might pertain to the quoted answer:

Does the blood of the Anasûrimbor have anything to do with activating the Carapace? And, as a tie-in question, does the absence of a soul have anything to do with the mechanics of reviving the No-God?

Was Nau-Cayuti fundamentally flawed in the way that Kelmomas was, or am I reading too much into similarities between them?

The answer:

it's not the blood that enables the Carapace, its the ability of the brain to functionally emulate that of an original Insertant.

I swear there's another one as well, but given that quote its terribly unclear (as with everything Bakker has said post-TUC.)

[SmilerLoki]

I swear there's another one as well, but given that quote its terribly unclear (as with everything Bakker has said post-TUC.)

Here it is.

[TLEILAXU]

I have found Bakker's quote about an original Insertant.

This is how the question was formulated:

Was Nau-Cayuti fundamentally flawed in the way that Kelmomas was, or am I reading too much into similarities between them?

This is how the answer looks like:

And lastly, it's not the blood that enables the Carapace, its the ability of the brain to functionally emulate that of an original Insertant.

The way I read it myself, Bakker is referring to Nau-Cayuti as "an original Insertant" because the question compares Kelmomas with him. Though I do see how it can be read as referring to some unknown original Insertant who both Kelmomas and Nau-Cayuti are able to successfully emulate. I don't see how either of those readings can be shown as the only correct one with the information we have available at this point.

See this post http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2278.105

[SmilerLoki]

See this post http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2278.105

Read it way before even making my first post on this forum. But thank you for the quote!

I took it to mean that the No-God with an Insertant is an ad-hoc solution to replace a function of the irreparably damaged Ark.

[Wilshire]

Seems there are a few scattered instances, though all about equally unclear. Might be helpful if they are all quoted in one place though.

See this post http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2278.105

Read it way before even making my first post on this forum. But thank you for the quote!

I took it to mean that the No-God with an Insertant is an ad-hoc solution to replace a function of the irreparably damaged Ark.

Yeah this and the AMA answer to Bolivar make this seem correct.

[TLEILAXU]

See this post http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2278.105

Read it way before even making my first post on this forum. But thank you for the quote!

I took it to mean that the No-God with an Insertant is an ad-hoc solution to replace a function of the irreparably damaged Ark.

Pretty sure it refers to the No-God (because that is what H is talking about, cue Bakker's response), i.e. having lost the original store of Insertants (circuits), they were forced to rummage through the world to find a suitable replacement.

[SmilerLoki]

Pretty sure it refers to the No-God (because that is what H is talking about, cue Bakker's response), i.e. having lost the original store of Insertants (circuits), they were forced to rummage through the world to find a suitable replacement.

My take is the "circuits" are some facet of the Ark that's no longer functional. H is starting his question by asking about the Ark:

I don't have a question prepared on short notice, so the first thing that comes to mind is to ask about Ark.

Bold mine.

[EDIT] Oh, actually, no, I read that soon after making my first post here.

[H]

The reason for Ajokli, or any of the Gods, being unable to get into the Golden Room and/or The Ark, all the Sranc, The First Apocalypse, Inchoroi, etc. etc. is unclear to me. I also don't understand how the proginators, or the Inchoroi, could be damned if the Gods couldn't see them.
If we can believe that some souls find oblivion by staying unnoticed by the Gods, I'm really not sure how living your whole life as invisible leads to something other than oblivion. I don't see how or why the Inchoroi could be so invisible and so damned.

Because damnation doesn't come from the gods, it comes from the Cubit.

They are not visible because the Eärwan gods are (seemingly) not universal, even if the Outside and the Cubit are.  It's not clear if this means that the gods are "locked out" from other places, because they are anarcane, or what though.  They've issued forth from the void, seemingly divorced from what the 100 can see.  But perhaps the issue is the 100 and the sundering of the God of gods though...

[TLEILAXU]

The reason for Ajokli, or any of the Gods, being unable to get into the Golden Room and/or The Ark, all the Sranc, The First Apocalypse, Inchoroi, etc. etc. is unclear to me. I also don't understand how the proginators, or the Inchoroi, could be damned if the Gods couldn't see them.
If we can believe that some souls find oblivion by staying unnoticed by the Gods, I'm really not sure how living your whole life as invisible leads to something other than oblivion. I don't see how or why the Inchoroi could be so invisible and so damned.

Because damnation doesn't come from the gods, it comes from the Cubit.

They are not visible because the Eärwan gods are (seemingly) not universal, even if the Outside and the Cubit are.  It's not clear if this means that the gods are "locked out" from other places, because they are anarcane, or what though.  They've issued forth from the void, seemingly divorced from what the 100 can see.  But perhaps the issue is the 100 and the sundering of the God of gods though...

The Inchoroi and the Ark are visible, but the meaning of the Ark is not visible (because it has none?). The way I see it, the Ark is like a Sranc. The Gods can see it, but it's just another element of the real to them, like a rock or a waterfall. The No-God is the ultimate manifestation of this physicality. The Gods can see the Inchoroi and the sins heaped upon them, but cannot see their mission.

[H]

The Inchoroi and the Ark are visible, but the meaning of the Ark is not visible (because it has none?). The way I see it, the Ark is like a Sranc. The Gods can see it, but it's just another element of the real to them, like a rock or a waterfall. The No-God is the ultimate manifestation of this physicality. The Gods can see the Inchoroi and the sins heaped upon them, but cannot see their mission.

I don't follow this, because the Inchoroi (and of course the Progenitors) are meaningful beings, that it the crux of their problem.  Now, I do think you are probably right, they don't see Sranc and maybe not the Ark, because they are "artificial" beings, but I've presented ideas before on why that might be that aren't just meaning-based.

[Wilshire]

Its confusing to me. If anything without a soul is invisible, what do they even see?

Just nebulous pinpricks of light floating in voids? Like a picture from space of the dark side of Earth, but instead of lights they see souls?