POV's in TGO/TUC

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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2018, 11:04:35 am »
I'll have to look into it, as I always thought that Issiral was the first WLW.

I think I wasn't clear in my last post(s), sorry about that. I meant that the man with the TJE POV who became the first WLW was Issiral, it's just that he probably was named something else before becoming the WLW (and we never learn what his original name might have been). Issiral is almost certainly not his actual name...


I'm also not too sure if I got all the POV's for TUC entirely nailed down, due to the constantly changing narrative used throughout the battle of Golgotterath.

Was the Mandate grandmaster (Sacarees) a POV or were those sections part of the omniscient narrator perspective.

I had exactly the same problem when skimming through TUC looking for POVs that might have been missed.

I'm guessing you're referring to that section where Saccarees and Kayűtas find out Skuthula is guarding the Intrinsic Gate? I couldn't figure out if it was a Saccarees POV or an omniscient one. Seems a bit too specific to be omniscient, but then again, it doesn't seem to have any particular passages that indicate that it's from Saccarees' POV... (I would probably go with omniscient in this case.)

I also noticed that one section where Ussiliar and his Shrial Knights find Serwa after she's hit with the pulse from the Sun Lance. Seems like it could be from Ussiliar's POV at first glance, but there don't seem to be clear indicators that it is either.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

MSJ

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« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2018, 01:42:40 pm »
Quote from:  ToT
I think I wasn't clear in my last post(s), sorry about that. I meant that the man with the TJE POV who became the first WLW was Issiral, it's just that he probably was named something else before becoming the WLW (and we never learn what his original name might have been). Issiral is almost certainly not his actual name...

Issiral was the name of the Priest of Ajokli the WLW killed right before Esme had the meeting with the Priest. The WLW became the Priest of Ajokli, ergo Issiral.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2018, 04:04:40 pm »
Issiral was the name of the Priest of Ajokli the WLW killed right before Esme had the meeting with the Priest. The WLW became the Priest of Ajokli, ergo Issiral.

Okay, somehow I managed to forget this detail. (I feel dumb.) Still, the original man was not named Issiral, that's what I'm trying to get at.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Wilshire

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« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2018, 04:13:30 pm »
So we don't know his name? The name of the man that abandoned his family to the collapsing tenement building and was subsequently anointed by Psatma?
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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2018, 04:46:07 pm »
So we don't know his name? The name of the man that abandoned his family to the collapsing tenement building and was subsequently anointed by Psatma?

I don't think we do, if you or someone else finds that information, feel free to prove me wrong. :)
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Old Gnostic Fool

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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2018, 10:39:49 pm »
I'll have to look into it, as I always thought that Issiral was the first WLW.

I think I wasn't clear in my last post(s), sorry about that. I meant that the man with the TJE POV who became the first WLW was Issiral, it's just that he probably was named something else before becoming the WLW (and we never learn what his original name might have been). Issiral is almost certainly not his actual name...

Not at all. I read it again and perfectly understood what you meant. The mistake was entirely mine.

I'm also not too sure if I got all the POV's for TUC entirely nailed down, due to the constantly changing narrative used throughout the battle of Golgotterath.

Was the Mandate grandmaster (Sacarees) a POV or were those sections part of the omniscient narrator perspective.

I had exactly the same problem when skimming through TUC looking for POVs that might have been missed.

I'm guessing you're referring to that section where Saccarees and Kayűtas find out Skuthula is guarding the Intrinsic Gate? I couldn't figure out if it was a Saccarees POV or an omniscient one. Seems a bit too specific to be omniscient, but then again, it doesn't seem to have any particular passages that indicate that it's from Saccarees' POV... (I would probably go with omniscient in this case.)

I also noticed that one section where Ussiliar and his Shrial Knights find Serwa after she's hit with the pulse from the Sun Lance. Seems like it could be from Ussiliar's POV at first glance, but there don't seem to be clear indicators that it is either.

Yes, I'm refering to the section where Saccarees and Kayutas find Skuthula guarding the gate. I fully understand the confusion as it can be very hard to pin things down sometimes, especially when no internal monologues are present to clear up any doubts and Bakker is known for using an omniscient narrator to describe battle scenes.

Cnaiur is another peculiar case as we do see him march towards the Apocalypse at the very end. That's one section I'll have to go over again as I think I missed out on the little details, though I do believe it was his POV.

I'm also certain that Kalakiol (Ciphrang) and Aurang get their own POV's here, albeit brief ones.

Had it not been for the PON wiki, I would have missed out on the fact that Yatwer got her own tiny POV in TWLW.  ;D


Wilshire

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« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2018, 02:43:09 pm »
Thanks SmilerLoki. I deleted the spam account and your comment since it no longer applies - don't want anyone to think Old Gnostic Fool is a spam account lol.
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natanaj

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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2018, 01:52:30 am »
I have to say I really enjoyed the Moengus chapters. Especially the second person one. Why was it second person though?

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Dora Vee

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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2018, 03:19:10 am »
Second person tends to give a narrative an ethereal feel. I used to despise it, until I actually read a fanfic that used second person.
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2018, 01:43:54 pm »
I actually can't remember the Yatwer POV at all... gonna have to make up for that.

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« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2018, 08:29:37 pm »
Not sure if you're counting Achamian's Dreams as POVs, but if you are then you can add Nau-Cayuti to the list. Also there's a Sranc POV very briefly somewhere in TWLW, where Soma is talking to one.

ETA: Nevermind, just saw you're only doing TGO/TUC.

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2018, 06:30:42 pm »
Second person tends to give a narrative an ethereal feel. I used to despise it, until I actually read a fanfic that used second person.

I agree - it wouldn't work so well if it was used often in the series, but it being used just twice(?) makes it work effectively.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Old Gnostic Fool

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« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2018, 12:36:29 am »
Not sure if you're counting Achamian's Dreams as POVs, but if you are then you can add Nau-Cayuti to the list. Also there's a Sranc POV very briefly somewhere in TWLW, where Soma is talking to one.

ETA: Nevermind, just saw you're only doing TGO/TUC.

Well I only mentioned the last two books because they are not covered by the PON wiki, but if something is missing from any of the others, I'd like to know that as well.

I was also trying to follow the format presented by the wiki, which excludes the POV dreams altogether.  If we include Nau-Cayuti, then we need to consider Seswatha as well from all the previous dreams present throughout the series.

Old Gnostic Fool

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« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2018, 12:43:34 am »
I actually can't remember the Yatwer POV at all... gonna have to make up for that.

It's quite easy to miss. The wiki was especially helpful in reminding me of all the small ones scattered throughout the series.

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2018, 11:29:28 am »
Well I only mentioned the last two books because they are not covered by the PON wiki, but if something is missing from any of the others, I'd like to know that as well.

Actually, that is a good idea, I'll try to check if something is missing as the current reread goes along.


I was also trying to follow the format presented by the wiki, which excludes the POV dreams altogether.  If we include Nau-Cayuti, then we need to consider Seswatha as well from all the previous dreams present throughout the series.

While we technically do have the POVs of Seswatha, Nau-Cayűti and Celmomas (am I missing anyone?) via the Dreams, they're not really direct POVs as the others are, as the main POV character is still Akka. They're more like secondary POVs. Maybe we could add them to the POV lists in the wiki as something like "Seswatha (in Achamian's Dreams)" or "Seswatha (secondary POV)"?
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)