ARC: TDTCB Chapter 5

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Dora Vee

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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2018, 10:49:10 pm »
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Does that make Cnaiür the Guts of TSA?

I actually think that. In fact, a lot of Cnaiur scenes make me think of Guts, especially the imagery. It made me wonder if Bakker ever read Berserk. His answer? "No. Sounds cool though." Heh.

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I do know that, but it seems so strange that her family's contribution to the marriage would be the burning of the Harem, don't you think? It's possible that Bakker did mean bride price. It makes sense that you'd have both Istriya's family paying the customary dowry to the Ikurei family and Istriya then asking her husband to have the Harem burned. I can definitely imagine the Emperor being so in love with/easily manipulated by his beautiful young wife that he'd do that for her, making the statement that she would be the only woman in his life.

Yup. I think Bakker meant bride price too. I would just love to know more about this.


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This is kind of a tangent, but I've been toying with the idea of making a "top x" (was thinking of top 10, might end up being more) female characters in TSA I'd like to know more about. Characters that seem like they'd have interesting backstories just from the tidbits we get. If I ever get around to doing that in the near future, I'll post a link somewhere

I'd be interested. Especially about Proyas's mother as she was considered "legendary" and probably the reason why he turned out the way he did. Female consult members too, like Ieva.


Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
                          -Ajencis, the fourth analytic of man

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2018, 12:27:39 pm »
I actually think that. In fact, a lot of Cnaiur scenes make me think of Guts, especially the imagery. It made me wonder if Bakker ever read Berserk. His answer? "No. Sounds cool though." Heh.

There are quite a few similarities, yes, not only in terms of characters but also in the main themes present in both Berserk and TSA. It would be nice if the similarities were an intentional homage, but, you know, sometimes two works of fiction can be very similar just by sheer coincidence.
This makes me wish Bakker would read Berserk before publishing TNG and we'd have some actual deliberate influences there...but he doesn't seem like the kind of person that would read manga (I might be completely mistaken on this, of course - unlike many people in this forum, I don't even personally know him).


Yup. I think Bakker meant bride price too. I would just love to know more about this.

So would I. At this point the only way we'd know would either be someone directly asking Bakker about it or a prequel. The latter option only has some chance of happening (in the near future at least) if it's in the form of a short story.


I'd be interested. Especially about Proyas's mother as she was considered "legendary" and probably the reason why he turned out the way he did. Female consult members too, like Ieva.

I'll let you know when I actually make that list, then. :) Both Thaila the elder (Proyas' mother) and Iëva will definitely be on that list. (I'm not going to include characters such as Miramis or Thaila the younger because there's still a good enough chance we will see them in TNG.)
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

TheCulminatingApe

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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2018, 06:10:26 pm »
We learn that human sacrifice is a thing - victims are burnt in the Cmiral when Calmemunis arrives in Momemn.  The Nansur at least also seem to be quite heavily into the reading of omens and astrology.  Fantasy Christendom this is not - despite the analogues to the Pope, the Bible and the Crusades and suggested in Part 1.  Clever and subtle world building - one of the great strengths of PON

To be fair, not everything has to be a 1:1 equivalent between real life cultures/religions/etc. and TSA ones, but yes, there is much more to the Nansur Empire that you'd think on a first read, that's for sure. Passages like this are easily overlooked. And I absolutely agree about the worldbuilding.

I didn't mean that there should be a 1:1 equivalent - that's bad worldbuilding in my opinion.  The way things are set out seems intended to imply that the Inrithi are similar to medieval Christian Europe - i.e. they are 'us', and 'the good guys'.  Things like the passing reference to human sacrifice reminds us that we are mistaken, and probably making assumptions based on our inherent biases.  Hence, my statement about it being both clever and subtle.

There is nothing as yet to imply the presence of skin-spies.  Are the Nansur being manipulated, and by whom?  Skeaos and Cememketri seme to think that the Nansur own, or can posses the Holy War, which is an interesting pointer to later events, in both the delusions of the Ikurei and the fact that someone does indeed end up possessing the Holy War.

I'll disagree on the fact that there is nothing to imply the presence of skin-spies in this chapter - there are quite a few hints that can be used as evidence for both Skeaös and Istriya being skin-spies at this point in time.

I take your point.  The hints are less blatant than in Part 1 one though - I imagine deliberately, so that people don't start working too much out ;).
Sez who?
Seswatha, that's who.

MSJ

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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2018, 03:53:52 am »
Oh, there are quite few quotes throughout this passage that could suggest Istryia is a skin-spy. The bottled up of her quote. Also, her seeming so out of the loop. You can tell she is clearly begging Xerius to go along with Maithenet, in hindsight, what the Consult wants. They only know that all their SS's are being outed by the Cish. Fairly strong case for SS Istryia.

Not Skeaos though. I think he is replaced to sway Xerius. Probably at the orders of SS Istryia, to have a common peer among the Nansur.

In hindsight, that Mallahet is Moe is a smack to the face. We see that he is feared and has powers other Cish dont possess.

Again, Xerius is such a tragic character. ToT really spelled out all his weaknesses. But, if not for a lone Dunyain, Xerius plan most likely comes to fruition. So I can't call him a total fool. You just get the feeling reading this chapter, he'll be the 1st big charactwr to fall.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2018, 11:05:05 pm »
Just quickly popping back into this thread to add the body count (I'm taking over with BFK's approval).

Chapter Five Body Count: None (unless you count those unfortunate sparrows).
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2018, 03:21:52 am »
Just quickly popping back into this thread to add the body count (I'm taking over with BFK's approval).

Chapter Five Body Count: None (unless you count those unfortunate sparrows).

Or the ten bulls being slaughtered by Arithmeas, the Imperial Auger.  ;)

Thanks, Thelli!
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2018, 09:57:17 am »
Or the ten bulls being slaughtered by Arithmeas, the Imperial Auger.  ;)

Thanks, Thelli!

I saw that, but I think Arithmeas probably went on to slaughter the bulls only after the events of the chapter. Either way, animal deaths only for this chapter.

You're welcome!
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)