Deaths in TNG

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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« on: May 12, 2018, 05:30:51 pm »
I figured it would be a good idea to make a thread for death predictions pre-series. That way, anyone who happens to be right can smugly say they called it. ;)
Anyone who's feeling adventurous can speculate on actual causes of death for extra points.


My own ideas about who will die are still very fuzzy (especially since there aren't that many characters 100% confirmed to still be alive by the end of TUC), but as of now I feel rather confident that Achamian and Esmenet will both die during this series (even if just close to the end). My (admittedly not very strong) reasoning: Achamian, Cnaiür, Kellhus, Esmenet and Serwë were the five main characters (per the character and faction glossary) at the beginning of TSA. Serwë was the first to die in TWP, Cnaiür appeared to die in TTT only to survive and actually die in TUC (his physical body was disintegrated, I'm choosing to disregard current theories and count him as dead), and Kellhus died in TUC (again, ignoring all the theories). Achamian and Esmenet are the last of the "old guard", and not only among those top 5 - pretty much all characters that had had a role of at least some significance during PON and survived the events of that series died during TAE (Maithanet, Proyas, Saubon, Iyokus, Fanayal, Aurang, Mekeritrig...). It would make thematic sense for these two last remaining characters to die at the end of the second apocalypse as (hopefully) a new age begins.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Old Gnostic Fool

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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2018, 11:40:59 pm »
It's also worth noting that Achamian and Esmenet are the only two characters to have POV's in all books. I can see them biting the dust in TNG, if only for the sake of full closure.

Do you really know that Iyokus is dead? I barely remember him being mentioned in TAE other than his role in teaching Kellhus about demon summoning.

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2018, 12:11:54 am »
It's also worth noting that Achamian and Esmenet are the only two characters to have POV's in all books. I can see them biting the dust in TNG, if only for the sake of full closure.

Very true, I hadn't even thought about how they have POVs in every single book, but you're right. Yet another reason why it makes narrative sense for both of them to die during TNG.


Do you really know that Iyokus is dead? I barely remember him being mentioned in TAE other than his role in teaching Kellhus about demon summoning.

He dies during the Battle of Golgotterath, but it's something that might go unnoticed because he's not actually referred to by name. Here's the relevant passage (from chapter 15 of TUC, under a spoiler tag because it's kind of long and I don't want to clutter this thread with it too much):
(click to show/hide)
Basically, the fact that Golgotterath is a topos allows Kakaliol to reach through from the Outside into the actual physical world and claim Iyokus' soul outright.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 12:14:34 am by ThoughtsOfThelli »
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

natanaj

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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2018, 12:43:06 am »
I didn't know his entire body disintegrated. I thought his skin just got fucked up.

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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2018, 11:06:37 am »
I didn't know his entire body disintegrated. I thought his skin just got fucked up.

Time for another TUC quote, I think. :) Again, under a spoiler tag.
(click to show/hide)
It happens gradually. First his skin starts to bleed, then it starts to peal back from his body, then the rest of his body progressively disintegrates.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Francis Buck

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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 06:12:45 pm »
Bit of a drive-by post here, but I actually could see Achamian living all the way through the series and being one of the 144,000 thousand remaining souls on Earwa at the end...

Everyone else is probably toast though.

MSJ

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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 06:28:26 pm »
Bit of a drive-by post here, but I actually could see Achamian living all the way through the series and being one of the 144,000 thousand remaining souls on Earwa at the end...

Everyone else is probably toast though.

Wow, quote function worked on phone!!!! ;) :)

I 2nd this idea and find it likely, though I think Esme makes it too.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Swayal Serpent

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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2018, 05:23:28 pm »
I think Esme will probably die, but I'm pretty certain Akka is going to make it. I think he's getting set up to be the next Seswatha, and Ses was a survivor of the first apocalypse. Akka's going to keep the gnosis alive and refound the mandate!

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2018, 06:56:20 pm »
Bit of a drive-by post here, but I actually could see Achamian living all the way through the series and being one of the 144,000 thousand remaining souls on Earwa at the end...

Everyone else is probably toast though.

I 2nd this idea and find it likely, though I think Esme makes it too.

I think Esme will probably die, but I'm pretty certain Akka is going to make it. I think he's getting set up to be the next Seswatha, and Ses was a survivor of the first apocalypse. Akka's going to keep the gnosis alive and refound the mandate!

Okay, so I'm definitely in the minority so far, with only Old Gnostic Fool agreeing with my Akka death prediction.

And for Esmenet, it seems like MSJ is in the minority, since everyone else so far seems to agree she will die.

About the Akka and Seswatha parallels, this is my opinion: I think that the parallels already exist (and presumably will only get stronger as TNG goes on) and have been there since PON.
Both:
-are/were sorcerers who came from humble origins (Seswatha the son of a Trysean bronzesmith/Akka the son of a Nroni fisherman);
-became close to an Anasûrimbor who eventually became a ruler (Celmomas, High-King of Kûniüri/Kellhus, Aspect-Emperor of the Three Seas), but the two later had a falling out (Celmomas resented Seswatha's influence on his son Nau-Cayûti and suspected he might even be Seswatha's biological son/Akka renounced Kellhus because of him "stealing" his wife Esmenet from him and due to learning the truth about the Dûnyain);
-had a romantic and sexual relationship with said Anasûrimbor's wife (Celmomas' wife Suriala/Kellhus' wife Esmenet - though in this case the relationship with Akka happened before the relationship with Kellhus);
-had a student and surrogate son who met a tragic end due to the influence of the Consult (Nau-Cayûti/Inrau - and you can count Proyas as well in Akka's case, though more indirectly);
-interacted with a sorcerous artifact with led to them experiencing events in the life/memories of someone else (the Amiolas/Seswatha's Heart).
And that's just off the top of my head, there might be more I'm not remembering right now.
I can, however, actually see Akka dying right after managing to end the Second Apocalypse but surviving long enough to pass on the torch and the task of founding a new Mandate to someone else (Serwa?).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 07:00:09 pm by ThoughtsOfThelli »
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

H

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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2018, 02:09:22 pm »
Honestly, I could see a chance that Mimara might take something of a literal Christ parallel and "die" in some manner, only to be reborn or restored, or something else.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira