Poll

Which POV(s) are you looking forward to the most during TNG?

Achamian
2 (8.7%)
Esmenet
0 (0%)
Mimara
0 (0%)
Moėnghus the Younger
3 (13%)
Serwa (assuming she survived)
1 (4.3%)
Malowebi
3 (13%)
The Boy (aka Crabicus)
6 (26.1%)
Saccarees (assuming he survived)
0 (0%)
New character(s) (feel free to speculate on who exactly)
3 (13%)
Other (returning characters from PON or TAE? please specify)
5 (21.7%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Which POV(s) are you looking forward to the most during TNG?

  • 18 Replies
  • 985 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ThoughtsOfThelli

  • *
  • Great Name
  • ****
  • Thelli's Revenge
  • Posts: 492
  • Approximation of a Human
    • View Profile
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2018, 04:16:54 pm »
Its sad Iyokus never really came back. Maybe some soul wrenching suffering in the Outside.

Probably the only way we'd see him again, yes (maybe barring flashbacks?), as it doesn't seem like he'd be anywhere near "Ciphrang-level" of damnation. And I agree with you, Iyokus was severely underused during TAE - I know he was more important in PON, but still, we could have had at least one or two scenes with him during the Ordeal chapters. He was only mentioned a couple of times during TJE, TWLW and TGO and then came back to be killed by a Ciphrang. Sad.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasūrimbor Kayūtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Francis Buck

  • *
  • Kcub Sicnarf
  • Kijneta
  • *****
  • The Lordlady
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2018, 10:05:35 pm »
I found Iyokus not appearing on-screen whatsoever to be very, very strange, to the extent that it doesn't really make sense to me. Why would he not have been more involved, for example, in the scenes with members of the Great Ordeal making tactical/strategic decisions? We see the other leading sorcerors involved there (hell, an entire subplot is devoted to Saccarrees and Carindusu). I'd figured by the time TGO came out Iyokus still hadn't popped up  that RSB was just saving himfor TUC - and in a sense he was, what with the super daimos Ciphrang attack -- but it still felt strange that we gradually got to catch up on characters like Proyas and later Saubon as TAE progressed, but never got anything from the dude who is in large part responsible for some of the more important things in the quadrilogy, including Kellhus's learning of the Daimos (the relevance of which can't really be overstated, given the ending of TUC).

It feels like something where there may have been plans to have him show up, but they either got dropped in editing or RSB just felt like it wasn't plot relevant by the time we got TUC, and that the glimpse we got via Kakaliol was enough.

ThoughtsOfThelli

  • *
  • Great Name
  • ****
  • Thelli's Revenge
  • Posts: 492
  • Approximation of a Human
    • View Profile
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2018, 10:21:38 pm »
I found Iyokus not appearing on-screen whatsoever to be very, very strange, to the extent that it doesn't really make sense to me. Why would he not have been more involved, for example, in the scenes with members of the Great Ordeal making tactical/strategic decisions? We see the other leading sorcerors involved there (hell, an entire subplot is devoted to Saccarrees and Carindusu). I'd figured by the time TGO came out Iyokus still hadn't popped up  that RSB was just saving himfor TUC - and in a sense he was, what with the super daimos Ciphrang attack -- but it still felt strange that we gradually got to catch up on characters like Proyas and later Saubon as TAE progressed, but never got anything from the dude who is in large part responsible for some of the more important things in the quadrilogy, including Kellhus's learning of the Daimos (the relevance of which can't really be overstated, given the ending of TUC).

It feels like something where there may have been plans to have him show up, but they either got dropped in editing or RSB just felt like it wasn't plot relevant by the time we got TUC, and that the glimpse we got via Kakaliol was enough.

I agree. I seem to remember a scene where Iyokus expressed his opinion during a meeting or something, but that was about it. For three books, he was almost entirely in the background. Which is indeed strange, considering this is a secondary character that had an important role in the last series and (which is maybe more relevant for TAE) that was Kellhus' tutor in the Daimos in between series.
It's possible that Bakker felt that he just didn't have the time to include anything with Iyokus along with all the other ongoing plotlines, but it's still disappointing. We just get a short scene with him (and he wasn't even referred to by name, which resulted in some people not even noticing that he died...) and then he dies. I haven't heard of any deleted scene involving him, though, so maybe dropping a possible Iyokus subplot (if it did happen) was an early decision?
Like you said, we had those scenes with Saccarees and Carindūsū. Iyokus' role in TAE is even smaller than that of Obwė Gūswuran (Mysunsai Grandmaster) and Temus Enhorū (Imperial Saik Grandmaster), who aren't that important as characters, but are at least mentioned frequently. It's almost a glaring absence, every single Grandmaster of a School in the Ordeal except for Iyokus (until his only and last scene) has a minor role.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasūrimbor Kayūtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

profgrape

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Great Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2018, 03:19:24 pm »
I found Iyokus not appearing on-screen whatsoever to be very, very strange, to the extent that it doesn't really make sense to me. Why would he not have been more involved, for example, in the scenes with members of the Great Ordeal making tactical/strategic decisions? We see the other leading sorcerors involved there (hell, an entire subplot is devoted to Saccarrees and Carindusu). I'd figured by the time TGO came out Iyokus still hadn't popped up  that RSB was just saving himfor TUC - and in a sense he was, what with the super daimos Ciphrang attack -- but it still felt strange that we gradually got to catch up on characters like Proyas and later Saubon as TAE progressed, but never got anything from the dude who is in large part responsible for some of the more important things in the quadrilogy, including Kellhus's learning of the Daimos (the relevance of which can't really be overstated, given the ending of TUC).

It feels like something where there may have been plans to have him show up, but they either got dropped in editing or RSB just felt like it wasn't plot relevant by the time we got TUC, and that the glimpse we got via Kakaliol was enough.

I agree. I seem to remember a scene where Iyokus expressed his opinion during a meeting or something, but that was about it. For three books, he was almost entirely in the background. Which is indeed strange, considering this is a secondary character that had an important role in the last series and (which is maybe more relevant for TAE) that was Kellhus' tutor in the Daimos in between series.
It's possible that Bakker felt that he just didn't have the time to include anything with Iyokus along with all the other ongoing plotlines, but it's still disappointing. We just get a short scene with him (and he wasn't even referred to by name, which resulted in some people not even noticing that he died...) and then he dies. I haven't heard of any deleted scene involving him, though, so maybe dropping a possible Iyokus subplot (if it did happen) was an early decision?
Like you said, we had those scenes with Saccarees and Carindūsū. Iyokus' role in TAE is even smaller than that of Obwė Gūswuran (Mysunsai Grandmaster) and Temus Enhorū (Imperial Saik Grandmaster), who aren't that important as characters, but are at least mentioned frequently. It's almost a glaring absence, every single Grandmaster of a School in the Ordeal except for Iyokus (until his only and last scene) has a minor role.

A couple of ideas on why this might have been:

1. He knows too much.  As things turned out, Kellhus' experiments with the Daimos ended up being pretty important to the story.  So providing his perspective might have been too much a tip of the hat. 

2. Optics.  Of all Kellhus' atrocities, none were more concerning to his flock than his experiments with the Daimos.  The Decapitants in particular were hard to square with his role as Prophet.   So it might have made sense to keep Iyokus at arms' length.