Will the Mutilated step out of the shadows?

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H

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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2018, 01:51:49 pm »
Well, also Bakker did say he was leaning toward the next series being written more like The Sags rather than how the rest of the books were.  I take that to mean less first-person perspectives, so if we do "see" them, it is probably only glimpses of them from afar.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2018, 09:11:51 pm »
Well, also Bakker did say he was leaning toward the next series being written more like The Sags rather than how the rest of the books were.  I take that to mean less first-person perspectives, so if we do "see" them, it is probably only glimpses of them from afar.
Actually, if we take it at face value and imagine something along the lines of the Silmarillion, then I'm worried about his readership. A narrative structure of this kind doesn't seem to engage contemporary readers.

profgrape

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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2018, 10:44:03 pm »
Well, also Bakker did say he was leaning toward the next series being written more like The Sags rather than how the rest of the books were.  I take that to mean less first-person perspectives, so if we do "see" them, it is probably only glimpses of them from afar.
Actually, if we take it at face value and imagine something along the lines of the Silmarillion, then I'm worried about his readership. A narrative structure of this kind doesn't seem to engage contemporary readers.
I had the same reaction.  As much as I like the stories Bakker tells, what I really love is the way he tells them.  And so much of that comes down to perspective -- seeing things through the characters' eyes. 

Yet it might also be that he meant that the books might be structured around shorter, more self-contained arcs.  As Esme notes in TTT, the through line for the Sagas was Seswatha -- he'd appear and disappear and played a number of different roles.  So I could imagine something where there are a lot of new POV's that experience TSA with Akka and his ragtag band as the through line. 

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2018, 11:30:56 pm »
Yet it might also be that he meant that the books might be structured around shorter, more self-contained arcs.  As Esme notes in TTT, the through line for the Sagas was Seswatha -- he'd appear and disappear and played a number of different roles.  So I could imagine something where there are a lot of new POV's that experience TSA with Akka and his ragtag band as the through line.

I like this idea, having not only the Akka POVs but also seeing him from new (or returning) minor or secondary characters' eyes. Remember how Seswatha was seen as villainous, or at least morally ambiguous, in some of the books of the Sagas? It's very likely we'd have the same happen in Akka's case, especially since he's already the infamous Wizard who renounced their late Holy Aspect-Emperor...
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

MSJ

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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2018, 12:52:18 am »
Quote from:  ThoughtsofThelli
It's very likely we'd have the same happen in Akka's case, especially since he's already the infamous Wizard who renounced their late Holy Aspect-Emperor...

And, most of the world will believe Kellhus the No-God. Setting Akka up as the "not as crazy as we thought" Wizard. As you alluded to with Akka renouncing Kellhus and then writing a book denouncing him. He almost definitely will be the moral compass to many.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2018, 11:13:16 am »
Well, at minimum, if Bakker is sticking with what he told us, I really doubt we would see them directly in The Crabikiad.  After that, well, it depends on how he chooses to show the story, I guess.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2018, 11:16:42 am »
And, most of the world will believe Kellhus the No-God. Setting Akka up as the "not as crazy as we thought" Wizard. As you alluded to with Akka renouncing Kellhus and then writing a book denouncing him. He almost definitely will be the moral compass to many.

A good point MSJ, but there will still be people who think that Akka is a shady character no matter how vindicated he might seem in retrospect by Kellhus being turned into the No-God (which may be...not that much? people still don't have confirmation about the whole Dűnyain and manipulation thing, only Akka's side of the story, they'll just think their Saviour met a tragic end).
Anyway, difference in opinions, that is what I expect to see: people thinking Akka was always an ungrateful traitor to the New Empire and has now taken advantage of Kellhus' death to set himself up as the new saviour; people who were faithful to Kellhus and mourn him but are now starting to doubt his goals and/or consider Akka has some valid points and their best interests in mind; people aligned with the Orthodox movement who now got what they wanted (Kellhus is gone) but are faced with the Apocalypse - they may very well turn to Akka and be quite willing to hear/see what he has to say/do; etc. I'm particularly interested in what the general reactions will be in the Zeümi court (assuming everyone doesn't just get slaughtered by the demon with Malowebi's face), given Malowebi's recollections of himself and his fellow Mbimayu reading and discussing Akka's Compendium.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

MSJ

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« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2018, 05:17:53 pm »
Remember he will be coming back with Esme, the Empress of the 3 seas. Also, Mimara. And, people that do make it out of the wake of The No-God from the Ordeal will know what role she played.

I still think humanity wins. Because, in TAE there are so many references to it becoming holy.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2018, 05:52:35 pm »
Remember he will be coming back with Esme, the Empress of the 3 seas. Also, Mimara. And, people that do make it out of the wake of The No-God from the Ordeal will know what role she played.

I still think humanity wins. Because, in TAE there are so many references to it becoming holy.

Well, the issue is that anyone who was loyal to Esmenet is probably well and dead.  And I don't know that anyone knows who Mimara is, but the good thing is that she doesn't need to dupe anyone, like Kellhus did, she is the real deal.  Perhaps they return and find themselves with the Fanim, as Mimara could leverage the Eye as a neat "tool of the Solitary God."  Perhaps even find an ally in Meppa.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2018, 07:51:03 pm »
Quote from:  H
Well, the issue is that anyone who was loyal to Esmenet is probably well and dead.  And I don't know that anyone knows who Mimara is, but the good thing is that she doesn't need to dupe anyone, like Kellhus did, she is the real deal.  Perhaps they return and find themselves with the Fanim, as Mimara could leverage the Eye as a neat "tool of the Solitary God."  Perhaps even find an ally in Meppa.

You're right, of course. There is no established rulership from Esme anymore. Yet, who do the people of Earwa look too, hmmmm?

Akka, just makes perfect sense. Now, many have posed that the majority that hear tell of went down with the rise of the No-God, will think Kellhus the No-God. What other conclusion could be drawn? He's the only one they know went into the Golden Room.

Akka, plublicy denounced, became a Wizard and made it his life work to find the origins of Kellhus. He survived the Ordeal and rise, he is a Mandate Schoolmen. For that reason alone, who better to trust during the Apocalypse?

If what Zsoronga says is true, many in Zeum believe his book. And, Zuem is the bulwark of the fight against the No-God. That's where Akka & co. head to. Personally, I see no better fit for Akka, and its set up throughout the series. As, someone said, "He's went from most insecure, to obsessed and now fighting what he has been fighting for the entirety of his life.".
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2018, 08:17:00 pm »
Well, from our rational perspective, yes believing Akka is the logical thing to do.  But believing Seswatha was the logical thing to do during the First Apocalypse and most did not.  Now, we can believe that people will have learned and some might, but everyone?  That seems doubtful.

Mimara is the real hope, because she is the real prophet.  Akka does speak for the past, but Mimara actually speaks for divine judgment.  Akka will be important, but Mimara is the real key.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2018, 08:33:13 pm »
Quote from:  H
Mimara is the real hope, because she is the real prophet.  Akka does speak for the past, but Mimara actually speaks for divine judgment.  Akka will be important, but Mimara is the real key.

I agree 100%
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Francis Buck

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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2018, 08:26:23 pm »
It's also possible that Moenghus Jr. teams up with the Consult (at least initially) and then, upon learning they are Dunyain, somehow disseminates this information to other characters, especially given that he does not quite like Dunyain at this particular moment.

themerchant

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« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2018, 07:04:43 pm »
Mimara might know via judging eye about the Mutilated.