Will Akka and co even make it back to the TS?

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profgrape

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« on: May 25, 2018, 09:27:53 pm »
At some point, Bakker described Atrithau as something we'll visit in future books.  Which now means TNG.  And given the parallels between Akka and Seswatha's roles in their respective Apocolypses, if we ever see Atrithau it seems like it would be through Akka's eyes. 

I could see Esme and Mimara will end up crossing the Leash, skirting the Demua mountains (perhaps picking up a certain crab-handed boy along the way) and heading for Atrithau. 

Of course, Atrithau will be in chaos.  Their king was killed by Cnaiur and the Scylvendi at the Battle of Eels just a few months prior to the NG's advent.  And like Seswatha, Akka will come in and fail spectacularly at rallying the troops.

The question of where they go next is where things get interesting.

If they want to head for the Three Seas, they'd either have to cross the Jiunati Steppe (which might be fine as the Scylvendi warriors are elsewhere) or head for the pass into Galeoth -- both treacherous options.   But would Esme even want to do that after witnessing the empire's literal collapse in Momemn?  Wouldn't they want to head someplace where they could at least mount some sort of resistance? 

Instead of the TS, they might leave Atrithau, head south, skirt west of the Sea of Jorua and then cross the unnamed tributary into High Holy Zeum!

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 09:53:22 pm »
I think it's very likely we'll see Atrithau early(ish?) in TNG, for all the reasons you pointed out. Things over there do seem to have been in quite a bit of disarray even before the start of the Second Apocalypse...it's likely whatever they manage to accomplish there won't last for long.

I have a guess which may be entirely wishful thinking - they might go to Conriya at some point (geography-wise people, feel free to tell me if I'm being a complete idiot here). Esmenet has already been established as trusting Proyas' wife (now widow) Miramis, and actually thought of finding refuge there following Maithanet's coup:
Quote from: TWLW, Chapter 14
She understood the force of his argument--not a day passed where she failed to inventory all those she thought she could trust. House Nersei, in particular, in Aöknyssus. Surely she could depend on Queen Miramis--Saubon's niece and Proyas's wife--to at least give her sanctuary, if not prosecute the interests of her family.
Of course, Miramis might not be so willing to help out the widow of the man who set up her husband to be executed as a traitor (especially if they only go there after months have passed and Mirathais and other possible survivors have had time to take news back to Miramis). We don't know what Miramis' relationship with Proyas was like (considering he wasn't even around most of the time), but I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least quite a few people in Conriya who refused to believe or at least were strongly suspicious of the accusations against Proyas. He seems to have been a well-loved king.

On Zeüm - I think Akka and co. may not go there for quite a while, but we'll get an idea of what is going on there before that via one or more new POVs (Likaro, another Mbimayu sorcerer, maybe even the Satakhan or any of his surviving family members before they get murdered by the Malowebi-faced demon...).
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H

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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2018, 02:18:07 pm »
Well, I'd think it would be nearly impossible for Akka, Mimara, Esmenet and the baby to foot-slog it all the way back, now that there is no Ordeal to draw the Sranc to it.  It would also be a bad idea to try to cut through Scylvendi territory.  So, I think it will have to either be a deus ex machina to get them out, or that they somehow carve out a hiding somewhere they can get to.  The last option would probably be finding some actual people along the coast who would sail them south.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2018, 02:29:46 pm »
Well, I'd think it would be nearly impossible for Akka, Mimara, Esmenet and the baby to foot-slog it all the way back, now that there is no Ordeal to draw the Sranc to it.  It would also be a bad idea to try to cut through Scylvendi territory.  So, I think it will have to either be a deus ex machina to get them out, or that they somehow carve out a hiding somewhere they can get to.  The last option would probably be finding some actual people along the coast who would sail them south.

For the time being at least, hiding seems like the best option. The No-God is not that likely to get to them if they stay away from densely populated areas. (Of course, they can't do so forever...)
I'd think that most of the capable Scylvendi warriors were with Cnaiür and would currently still be away from their territory (the ones that are still alive, that is)...but it'd still be a bad idea for Akka and co. to go through the Steppe, yes.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

TaoHorror

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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2018, 03:14:45 pm »
Did we see them "leave" at the end of TUC? I don't recall. Another option is to enter The Ark.
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profgrape

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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2018, 03:36:27 pm »
Well, I'd think it would be nearly impossible for Akka, Mimara, Esmenet and the baby to foot-slog it all the way back, now that there is no Ordeal to draw the Sranc to it.  It would also be a bad idea to try to cut through Scylvendi territory.  So, I think it will have to either be a deus ex machina to get them out, or that they somehow carve out a hiding somewhere they can get to.  The last option would probably be finding some actual people along the coast who would sail them south.

For the time being at least, hiding seems like the best option. The No-God is not that likely to get to them if they stay away from densely populated areas. (Of course, they can't do so forever...)
I'd think that most of the capable Scylvendi warriors were with Cnaiür and would currently still be away from their territory (the ones that are still alive, that is)...but it'd still be a bad idea for Akka and co. to go through the Steppe, yes.

A bad idea for sure.  But perhaps the least bad given the alternatives?

@H that's an excellent point about not having the Ordeal to draw the Sranc.  While a big chunk of the Norsorai Sranc population died at Dagliash, there are I'm sure plenty of them left, especially along the Demua mountains. 

Short of a deus ex machina (Zeumi corsairs searching for their prince, for example), the only thing I could imagine is that Akka and co shadow the Scylvendi back, perhaps with the Excursi in tow?  Or one of the Forsaken teaches Akka how to weave a Gateway.

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2018, 03:47:34 pm »
Or one of the Forsaken teaches Akka how to weave a Gateway.
And then gets mysteriously killed so we can speculate about that endlessly?

profgrape

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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2018, 03:49:11 pm »
Or one of the Forsaken teaches Akka how to weave a Gateway.
And then gets mysteriously killed so we can speculate about that endlessly?
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2018, 04:55:31 pm »
A bad idea for sure.  But perhaps the least bad given the alternatives?

@H that's an excellent point about not having the Ordeal to draw the Sranc.  While a big chunk of the Norsorai Sranc population died at Dagliash, there are I'm sure plenty of them left, especially along the Demua mountains. 

Short of a deus ex machina (Zeumi corsairs searching for their prince, for example), the only thing I could imagine is that Akka and co shadow the Scylvendi back, perhaps with the Excursi in tow?  Or one of the Forsaken teaches Akka how to weave a Gateway.

Hey, when you're in the middle of an Apocalypse, "least bad" is pretty much the same as "good".

There are just so many Sranc around Eärwa that even accounting for a) those killed by the Ordeal and b) those that the No-God will take along to wreck cities, there will likely still be more than enough around to pose a significant threat.

Or maybe Akka suddenly realizes he had the power of the Metagnosis all along. (Seswatha power boost?) For a deus ex machina, it's not a completely implausible one...
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

profgrape

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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 05:40:55 pm »
A bad idea for sure.  But perhaps the least bad given the alternatives?

@H that's an excellent point about not having the Ordeal to draw the Sranc.  While a big chunk of the Norsorai Sranc population died at Dagliash, there are I'm sure plenty of them left, especially along the Demua mountains. 

Short of a deus ex machina (Zeumi corsairs searching for their prince, for example), the only thing I could imagine is that Akka and co shadow the Scylvendi back, perhaps with the Excursi in tow?  Or one of the Forsaken teaches Akka how to weave a Gateway.

Hey, when you're in the middle of an Apocalypse, "least bad" is pretty much the same as "good".

There are just so many Sranc around Eärwa that even accounting for a) those killed by the Ordeal and b) those that the No-God will take along to wreck cities, there will likely still be more than enough around to pose a significant threat.

Or maybe Akka suddenly realizes he had the power of the Metagnosis all along. (Seswatha power boost?) For a deus ex machina, it's not a completely implausible one...

Or Dream-Kellhus teaches him the Metagnosis?  But is this even possible?  As far as we know, only Kellhus, Serwa and Saccarees have successfully cast a Metagnostic Cant -- a Dunyain prodigy, a half-Dunyain prodigy and a human prodigy.  Akka's an accomplished sorcerer in his own right (a War Cant master or something) so maybe he could grasp the Metagnosis if he has the right teacher?

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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2018, 06:11:29 pm »
Or Dream-Kellhus teaches him the Metagnosis?  But is this even possible?  As far as we know, only Kellhus, Serwa and Saccarees have successfully cast a Metagnostic Cant -- a Dunyain prodigy, a half-Dunyain prodigy and a human prodigy.  Akka's an accomplished sorcerer in his own right (a War Cant master or something) so maybe he could grasp the Metagnosis if he has the right teacher?

That's why it would be a deus ex machina, it doesn't seem like it'd be possible. ;)

Dream Kellhus would probably be the best option in this hypothetical situation.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

TaoHorror

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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 06:19:12 pm »
Or Dream-Kellhus teaches him the Metagnosis?  But is this even possible?  As far as we know, only Kellhus, Serwa and Saccarees have successfully cast a Metagnostic Cant -- a Dunyain prodigy, a half-Dunyain prodigy and a human prodigy.  Akka's an accomplished sorcerer in his own right (a War Cant master or something) so maybe he could grasp the Metagnosis if he has the right teacher?

That's why it would be a deus ex machina, it doesn't seem like it'd be possible. ;)

Dream Kellhus would probably be the best option in this hypothetical situation.

Or the right motivation ... TNG on your tail may well spark the creative juices and next thing you know you're back in TTS. Kellhus figured it out facing down 3 Cishaurim.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 06:21:07 pm by TaoHorror »
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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 06:35:52 pm »
Or the right motivation ... TNG on your tail may well spark the creative juices and next thing you know you're back in TTS. Kellhus figured it out facing down 3 Cishaurim.

If this is going to be a "figure out your superpowers via immediate threat" kind of situation, I think Sranc are more likely than the actual No-God. Unless, of course, they do decide to go straight to a densely populated area, which doesn't seem to be the best choice, as has been discussed.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

profgrape

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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 07:28:44 pm »
Or the right motivation ... TNG on your tail may well spark the creative juices and next thing you know you're back in TTS. Kellhus figured it out facing down 3 Cishaurim.

If this is going to be a "figure out your superpowers via immediate threat" kind of situation, I think Sranc are more likely than the actual No-God. Unless, of course, they do decide to go straight to a densely populated area, which doesn't seem to be the best choice, as has been discussed.
The Gnosis doesn't strike me as the sort of thing that you discover as much as something that's studied.  The idea of spontaneously gaining new powers in times of stress is more in line with the Psukhe.  Although now that I think about it, Akka stumbling on the Psukhe sounds really cool... :-)

I'm guessing that by the time Kellhus first utters the Cant of Translocation to teleport from Kyudea toward Shimeh, he'd already worked out the mechanics.  The Cant of Calling (basis for the CoT) is the first thing he insists Akka teach him.  And during the same session, he asks about the second inutteral.    So he had a few months to ponder at least.

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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 07:41:48 pm »
The Gnosis doesn't strike me as the sort of thing that you discover as much as something that's studied.  The idea of spontaneously gaining new powers in times of stress is more in line with the Psukhe.  Although now that I think about it, Akka stumbling on the Psukhe sounds really cool... :-)

I'm guessing that by the time Kellhus first utters the Cant of Translocation to teleport from Kyudea toward Shimeh, he'd already worked out the mechanics.  The Cant of Calling (basis for the CoT) is the first thing he insists Akka teach him.  And during the same session, he asks about the second inutteral.    So he had a few months to ponder at least.

Sure, I do agree with you there, I just came up with this as an option following the "deus ex machina" train of thought. I don't think this will actually happen in future books (I'd be quite surprised if it did). Unless he is taught the Metagnosis by say, Serwa, Saccarees or Dream Kellhus over a certain period of time during the course of the Apocalypse.

But yes, it would make more sense for an "emergency activation of superpowers" to happen with the Psûkhe. Speaking of which, we still have a convenient Cishaurim somewhere in the Three Seas that has not been confirmed as being dead... ;)
Not sure if we'll ever see someone use those two different branches of sorcery in the story... In theory, someone could (most likely a Dûnyain or half-Dûnyain)...in practice, not that easy. Everything is possible in the chaos of the Apocalypse, though, it's not like anyone is going to hunt down Akka the Wizard anytime soon.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)