Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?

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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« on: May 28, 2018, 06:56:50 pm »
Sister thread to this one. Thinking about the POVs we wish to see next made me start thinking about all of those we wish we could have had but never did.

I'm not making this a poll because I figure opinions have the potentially to vary immensely here. The criteria I'm establishing here are: a) characters that were alive at the beginning of the series and are currently confirmed as being dead (with little or no possibility of showing up as "secondary POVs" in a flashback, Dream, etc.) and b) never had a single section from their POV in any of the 7 books of the series. (Okay, I'll make exceptions for historical, long-dead characters if any of those are at the top of your lists, but I really didn't want this thread to be all about those.)
So, whose POV(s) would you have loved to see?


I think everyone knows who I'm going to pick - yes, I wish we could have had a Thelli POV. She was already such an interesting character to me even without one, I'd have loved to have a look into...the thoughts of Thelli, you might say. ;) And that's all I'll say on this here, because trust me, you'll get tired of me going on about Thelli when we get to TAE on the reread.
Someone else whose POV I'd have liked to see is Maithanet. Of course we didn't get one in PON for obvious reasons, but I'd have liked to get a window into his mind in TAE, when we were already well aware of who he was. We never got a true feeling of his true personality - was he similar to Kayűtas and Serwa, resigned to acting like a reliable tool for his father's (and later his half-brother's) plans? Did he have an agenda of his own we never knew about? These are not things we could have learned from Esmenet or Kelmomas' POVs, and sadly now we'll never know.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 09:31:53 pm »
I would have liked a Kayűtas POV, but maybe we'll get one in the "next series" (assuming I should live so long.... 😕)
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 10:08:56 pm »
Thelli, I forgot: We needed a Nurbanu Ze POV during the Great Ordeal's Sranc-induced mass hysteria!

Note to self: fanfic featuring Nurbanu Ze, who is clearly a buddy of Zôreius Öenghűs. Nurbanu Joe + Zorro = kick-ass comedy!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 11:38:17 pm by BeardFisher-King »
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 10:26:15 pm »
I would have liked a Kayűtas POV, but maybe we'll get one in the "next series" (assuming I should live so long.... 😕)

You'll probably still have your chance, there's a decent likelihood Kayűtas survived and was teleported away by Saccarees or something (don't get me started on how lucky that guy is compared to most of his relatives...). To me, he doesn't even belong in this category because I'm like 90% sure he's alive (might still not have a POV, though).

Don't despair, I don't think Bakker will take so long to publish the next book that you'll die in the meantime. Stay positive. ;) After all (checking wikipedia for dates) the biggest gap between TSA books was 5 years. People (including me) have been waiting for George R. R. Martin's The Winds of Winter for almost 7 years now.



Thelli, I forgot: We needed a Nurbanu Zč POV during the Great Ordeal's Sranc-induced mass hysteria!

Note to self: fanfic featuring Nurbanu Zč, who is clearly a buddy of Zôreius Öenghűs. Nurbanu Joe + Zorro = kick-ass comedy!

How did I even forget him? :o
I'd be also curious to know how he ended up being adopted by Soter, of all people. (I'm assuming it happened sometime during the Unification Wars.) That man never seemed like the fatherly type at all (even with the, you know, lack of actual decent parents in this series), I wonder what made Kellhus think he was the best person for adopting this young Jekki boy. (Not to mention...what happened to Ze's biological family?)

The grand Nurbanu Joe + Zorro team up needs to be a thing! :)
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

TaoHorror

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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 10:29:17 pm »
Not exactly in topic, but I so would have liked to have "witnessed" the great TUC/Dunyain war, that would've been a real treat. That little memory of an event bested the great wars before and the first apocalypse itself, which is no small feat given how epic those were. Watching godzilla stomp out the mice is ... boring. Seeing such bad-asses go toe to toe as the non-men vs Inchoroi and then the TUC vs Dunyain is the stuff!
May your death be soon, slow and painful

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 10:43:46 pm »
Not exactly in topic, but I so would have liked to have "witnessed" the great TUC/Dunyain war, that would've been a real treat. That little memory of an event bested the great wars before and the first apocalypse itself, which is no small feat given how epic those were. Watching godzilla stomp out the mice is ... boring. Seeing such bad-asses go toe to toe as the non-men vs Inchoroi and then the TUC vs Dunyain is the stuff!

Could technically be in topic if you want a POV from that one dead Mutilated. Or Shae, assuming he is not the Mutilated (and yes, he was a POV in a short story, but one set 3000 years before TAE, it can count). Or one of those Qűya who are either unnamed or are briefly named in TUC before they die. Or all of the above. ;)

Anyway, I second that, it would be pretty interesting to see not only the fall of Ishuäl (from a POV other than Koringhus, preferably someone from the Consult, like one of the aforementioned Qűya) but the manipulation of the Consult's inner circle by the Mutilated. Come to think of it, we only ever saw Dűnyain do their whole manipulation game with humans. Who knows how it would have gone down with Inchoroi and Qűya...
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2018, 12:02:34 am »
Did we actually ever get a Cet'ingira POV? I feel like we've always met him through other characters.
Also, a Sos-Praniura POV would've been cool too.

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2018, 12:22:08 am »
Did we actually ever get a Cet'ingira POV? I feel like we've always met him through other characters.
Also, a Sos-Praniura POV would've been cool too.

Actually, I don't think we did... Cet'ingira/Mekeritrig was in The False Sun, but I think it was all told either from Shae's POV or the omniscient POV. Then, in the series proper, we see him through Kellhus' POV in TDTCB, in Akka and Nautzera's Dreams via Akka's POV and in TUC from Malowebi's POV (and omniscient too, I think?). I don't think I'm forgetting any of his appearances, but I could be wrong.
Anyway, they're both good options. I would also be curious to see how Sos-Praniura lived so long if he was apparently a human. The same way as Shae, I'd guess, but he actually comes out and fights the Ordeal (and gets killed), while Shae's little immortality trick didn't exactly make him very mobile...
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2018, 06:25:35 pm »
Did we actually ever get a Cet'ingira POV? I feel like we've always met him through other characters.
Also, a Sos-Praniura POV would've been cool too.

Actually, I don't think we did... Cet'ingira/Mekeritrig was in The False Sun, but I think it was all told either from Shae's POV or the omniscient POV. Then, in the series proper, we see him through Kellhus' POV in TDTCB, in Akka and Nautzera's Dreams via Akka's POV and in TUC from Malowebi's POV (and omniscient too, I think?). I don't think I'm forgetting any of his appearances, but I could be wrong.
Anyway, they're both good options. I would also be curious to see how Sos-Praniura lived so long if he was apparently a human. The same way as Shae, I'd guess, but he actually comes out and fights the Ordeal (and gets killed), while Shae's little immortality trick didn't exactly make him very mobile...
Ah Sos-Praniura must've been a Nonman.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 06:27:12 pm by TLEILAXU »

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 06:32:32 pm »
Did we actually ever get a Cet'ingira POV? I feel like we've always met him through other characters.
Also, a Sos-Praniura POV would've been cool too.

Actually, I don't think we did... Cet'ingira/Mekeritrig was in The False Sun, but I think it was all told either from Shae's POV or the omniscient POV. Then, in the series proper, we see him through Kellhus' POV in TDTCB, in Akka and Nautzera's Dreams via Akka's POV and in TUC from Malowebi's POV (and omniscient too, I think?). I don't think I'm forgetting any of his appearances, but I could be wrong.
Anyway, they're both good options. I would also be curious to see how Sos-Praniura lived so long if he was apparently a human. The same way as Shae, I'd guess, but he actually comes out and fights the Ordeal (and gets killed), while Shae's little immortality trick didn't exactly make him very mobile...
Ah Sos-Praniura must've been a Nonman.

Eventually came to this conclusion as well following a Quorum conversation with H earlier today. The problem here was that we didn't have enough information to tell pre-TUC, so whoever originally created that wiki page for him must have assumed he was human. (Which was a fair assumption until we learned he was still alive.)
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

H

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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2018, 11:25:42 am »
A Sos-Praniura POV would have been great.  Honestly, a non-gibbering Aurax POV would have been great too.  Pretty much, any additional Consult POV would have been outstanding.  A definite missed opportunity, given how good Aurang's POV moments are.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2018, 12:54:03 pm »
A Sos-Praniura POV would have been great.  Honestly, a non-gibbering Aurax POV would have been great too.  Pretty much, any additional Consult POV would have been outstanding.  A definite missed opportunity, given how good Aurang's POV moments are.

It certainly would have, you'd think a (Non)man referred to as the "Lord-of-Poisons" would have a fascinating backstory. One wonders if he was the one to supply Iëva with the necessary poison to fake Nau-Cayűti's death. It seems likely to me...
Same goes for Aurax, though I'm still unsure about how long he has been in his meek, gibbering state. Like I told TLEILAXU in the Quorum a few days ago, I find it hard to believe that he became that way solely because of the Mutilated's interference. I'm not saying it wasn't a factor, but the Mutilated have been around for probably less than a decade. That's a very short period of time for extremely long-lived, potential immortal beings such as the Inchoroi. My guess is that he started declining a few centuries/millennia back and the Mutilated just completed the process, as it were. So an Aurax POV in the main series might have been unlikely anyway (maybe we could still get one in a future Atrocity Tale?).
Definitely a missed opportunity, even not counting Aurax, you'd have Shae (we did get his POV in The False Sun, but I meant "modern-day" Shae), Mekeritrig, Sos-Praniura...even one of the other Qűya we know little or nothing about would have been great (even if Nonman POVs can be quite confusing, considering Cinial'jin...but then again, the Nonmen working for the Consult would probably be in a somewhat more lucid state due to exposure to the Inverse Fire).
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasűrimbor Kayűtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

MSJ

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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2018, 01:03:30 pm »
Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but I thought that Aurax was in the state he was because of Aurang's death. To lose the only other member of your race, let alone your twin, could do that to one.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 01:36:35 pm »
Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but I thought that Aurax was in the state he was because of Aurang's death. To lose the only other member of your race, let alone your twin, could do that to one.

Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to know.  That is plausible though, that they were somehow symbiotically linked or something too.  That's part of the tragedy of just tossing him away though, even if that is what the narrative role is...

“I am a warrior of ages, Anasűrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 01:46:39 pm »
Quote from:  H
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to know.  That is plausible though, that they were somehow symbiotically linked or something too.  That's part of the tragedy of just tossing him away though, even if that is what the narrative role is...

Hopefully we'll get his POV or at least see him in TNG and then we could determine if Aurang's death is what spurred his....gibbering.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,