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TaoHorror

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« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2019, 01:56:55 am »

C. G. Jung -Aion, Researches into the Phenomonology of the Self

Hmm, keep in mind here that God-image is not, per se, God.  God-image can actually be used to stand in for the top of a hierarchy, or the pinnacle of an ontology.  One could consider it as "thing of highest value" as well, although monetary value not necessarily being that connotation there (although plausibly so in cases).

What does he mean about making Christianity "roomier"?

I'll need to dig a bit more into the context of the quote (I kind of tripped over it), but I think he means that it would be more accommodating of changes in circumstance.  That is, not be stiflingly conservative.

I took it to mean by adhering ( demanding obedience ) to custom/tradition, they're selling themselves short as their contribution to our identity is so much more profound - they should step on the gas and expand to envelop the new in lieu of resisting/attacking it. Don't counter, absorb and expand - e.g. own the wonder that arises from science, make it holy, allow it to contribute to identity, as counter/repressing science fuels it's destructiveness to what we are.

But I could be wrong.
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« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2019, 11:47:30 am »
I took it to mean by adhering ( demanding obedience ) to custom/tradition, they're selling themselves short as their contribution to our identity is so much more profound - they should step on the gas and expand to envelop the new in lieu of resisting/attacking it. Don't counter, absorb and expand - e.g. own the wonder that arises from science, make it holy, allow it to contribute to identity, as counter/repressing science fuels it's destructiveness to what we are.

But I could be wrong.

Yeah, I think we are both heading in the same direction.

The quote itself is ensconced in a short chapter which is very obtuse (there are parts that have a footnote per sentence).  The main thrust of it though is how the "Christian mind" approached the figure of God (and Christ) in Revelation.  That is, what was the need for Revelation?  So, in this way, he discusses the idea of the Antichrist as a reconciliation of the sort of dual-nature of God and so something of the dual-nature of Christ.

So, what he seems to be saying is that such a thing as Revelation, while understandable, didn't need to be a forgone conclusion.  And still doesn't have to be.  That is, it need not be, necessarily, Apocalyptic.  Rather then see that house as having to be destroyed to be reborn, one could see that house appended.

If I understand it right, which is a massive if, because most of the chapter is highly opaque.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

sciborg2

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« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2019, 05:20:40 am »
'Creativity itself is a groundless abyss of pure potential, more a fountain than a foundation.'
  -Matthew Segall
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« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2019, 08:48:01 pm »
"We (the undivided divinity operating within us) have dreamt the world. We have dreamt it as firm, mysterious, visible, ubiquitous in space and durable in time; but in its architecture we have allowed tenuous and eternal crevices of unreason which tell us it is false."
 -Borges
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« Reply #94 on: March 25, 2019, 05:29:42 pm »
“The divergence of the formulae about nature from the appearance of nature has robbed the formulae of any explanatory power.”
  - Whitehead
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« Reply #95 on: March 27, 2019, 03:56:47 am »
"Meantime the background of Eternity shows steadfast through all the pageants of the shifting world. This gives majesty to solitary landscapes, and to the vault of night; it urges me to go out and to be alone; to pace in starlight the solemn avenues, and to gaze upon Arcturus with his sons."
  -F. Myers, Fragments of an Inner Life
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« Reply #96 on: March 28, 2019, 09:08:28 pm »
'We may be in the Universe as dogs and cats are in our libraries, seeing the books and hearing the conversation, but having no inkling of the meaning of it all.'
 – William James
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« Reply #97 on: March 30, 2019, 02:26:50 pm »
To learn more about mental aspects of the world … we should try to discover ‘manifest principles’ that partially explain them, though their causes remain disconnected from what we take to be more fundamental aspects of science. The gap might have many reasons, among them, as has repeatedly been discovered, that the presumed reduction base was misconceived.
 --Noam Chomsky: What Kind of Creatures Are We?
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« Reply #98 on: March 31, 2019, 05:59:51 pm »
It would be possible to see in Achilles the Dionysiac strain, a passion for destruction growing out of a hatred for the destructibility of all things; and in Hector, the Apollonian part, the will toward preservation growing out of love for human achievements in their vulnerability.
  ~Rachel Bespaloff

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« Reply #99 on: April 02, 2019, 01:38:38 am »
"We (the undivided divinity operating within us) have dreamt the world. We have dreamt it as firm, mysterious, visible, ubiquitous in space and durable in time; but in its architecture we have allowed tenuous and eternal crevices of unreason which tell us it is false."
 -Borges

Music, states of happiness, mythology, faces belabored by time, certain twilights and certain places try to tell us something, or have said something we should not have missed, or are about to say something; this imminence of a revelation which does not occur is, perhaps, the aesthetic phenomenon.
 -Borges
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« Reply #100 on: April 04, 2019, 04:19:17 pm »
'Thus the thought [e.g.] which we expressed in the Pythagorean theorem is timelessly true, true independently of whether anyone takes it to be true. It needs no bearer. It is not true for the first time when it is discovered, but is like a [newly discovered] planet.'

– Gottlob Frege
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« Reply #101 on: April 04, 2019, 04:37:21 pm »
'Thus the thought [e.g.] which we expressed in the Pythagorean theorem is timelessly true, true independently of whether anyone takes it to be true. It needs no bearer. It is not true for the first time when it is discovered, but is like a [newly discovered] planet.'

– Gottlob Frege

I was watching this video, where Suskin talks about special relativity and specifically, I was thinking about what the "spacetime interval" is, or as we'd usually call it the speed of light and why it exists, that is, why does light only go that speed.  Part of it, if I understood it correctly, is that in 4D non-Euclidean geometry, such as spacetime seems to be, the that the Pythagorean theorem still applies, except its actually inverse, that is, t² - x² not plus.  Which is pretty interesting in it's own right.  Of course, that's if I even understood it correctly...

But in light of your quote, it's fascinating, because that sort of means that it is a "formal rule" of the formal Euclidean geometry?  Right?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #102 on: April 04, 2019, 05:08:39 pm »
'Thus the thought [e.g.] which we expressed in the Pythagorean theorem is timelessly true, true independently of whether anyone takes it to be true. It needs no bearer. It is not true for the first time when it is discovered, but is like a [newly discovered] planet.'

– Gottlob Frege

I was watching this video, where Suskin talks about special relativity and specifically, I was thinking about what the "spacetime interval" is, or as we'd usually call it the speed of light and why it exists, that is, why does light only go that speed.  Part of it, if I understood it correctly, is that in 4D non-Euclidean geometry, such as spacetime seems to be, the that the Pythagorean theorem still applies, except its actually inverse, that is, t² - x² not plus.  Which is pretty interesting in it's own right.  Of course, that's if I even understood it correctly...

But in light of your quote, it's fascinating, because that sort of means that it is a "formal rule" of the formal Euclidean geometry?  Right?

That's all way above my pay grade, thus sadly I really cannot say. I just like the idea of math theorems being like undiscovered planets...
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« Reply #103 on: April 04, 2019, 05:29:04 pm »
That's all way above my pay grade, thus sadly I really cannot say. I just like the idea of math theorems being like undiscovered planets...

Well, it's frankly way above mine too.

But, I guess I would draw the even more general way of thinking about it (less about the relation between existence and knowledge), in the "eternal" sense of "if A, then B" sort of way.  The Pythagorean theorem "works" because, if [Euclidean geometry] then [Pythagorean theorem].  In fact, the planet is the same sort of way, if [the starting conditions and "laws" of physics] then [the planet].

Both are not contingent on knowledge or observation, on being beheld or beholden.  I think though that there is a big difference though in the notion of "eternal" though, because, the planet could not have existed for "all time" because it is the product of an evolution of state through time (motion), where Euclidean geometry really is not abut time or motion at all and would be true absent both (although we wouldn't exist to know that).

I think I am outside the "spirit" of what you were trying to convey not though.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #104 on: April 04, 2019, 05:51:48 pm »
That's all way above my pay grade, thus sadly I really cannot say. I just like the idea of math theorems being like undiscovered planets...

Well, it's frankly way above mine too.

But, I guess I would draw the even more general way of thinking about it (less about the relation between existence and knowledge), in the "eternal" sense of "if A, then B" sort of way.  The Pythagorean theorem "works" because, if [Euclidean geometry] then [Pythagorean theorem].  In fact, the planet is the same sort of way, if [the starting conditions and "laws" of physics] then [the planet].

Both are not contingent on knowledge or observation, on being beheld or beholden.  I think though that there is a big difference though in the notion of "eternal" though, because, the planet could not have existed for "all time" because it is the product of an evolution of state through time (motion), where Euclidean geometry really is not abut time or motion at all and would be true absent both (although we wouldn't exist to know that).

I think I am outside the "spirit" of what you were trying to convey not though.

I think we're sorting of looking at this similarly, in that it's curious (to say the least) that something that comes to us via human mental "leg work" is something that is a non-contingent truth.

Admittedly I am a "Platonist" of sorts on this matter of Logical/Mathematical Universals...
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