Thought about other supports?

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Jabberwock03

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« on: August 14, 2018, 02:23:24 pm »
Hi guys,

I was wondering, on what other support would you like to see The Second Apocalypse adapted (TV show, comics, video game)?

From what I understood, the TV show will never happen (and I can't really be sad about that, not sure you can adapte something that heavy on TV).

Personnaly I would love to see the books adapted in an Animé format (as a netflix original for example, they do a good job at respecting the original content IMO), with short seasons of 12/13 episodes. For me, this format would allow the best possibilities for the philosophical parts (narative internal thoughts are better done in animés than series), and visual part (landscap, magic, gore, etc).

I would also like a video game of those book, specifically some sort of Total War in Earwa. I want my Ordeal to fight countless srancs!

And you, what do you imagine? Be creative!

P.S. Sorry if the topic already exist, I did search the forum but didn't found anything except for TV show.

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2018, 02:31:17 pm »
Hi guys,

I was wondering, on what other support would you like to see The Second Apocalypse adapted (TV show, comics, video game)?

From what I understood, the TV show will never happen (and I can't really be sad about that, not sure you can adapte something that heavy on TV).

Personnaly I would love to see the books adapted in an Animé format (as a netflix original for example, they do a good job at respecting the original content IMO), with short seasons of 12/13 episodes. For me, this format would allow the best possibilities for the philosophical parts (narative internal thoughts are better done in animés than series), and visual part (landscap, magic, gore, etc).

I would also like a video game of those book, specifically some sort of Total War in Earwa. I want my Ordeal to fight countless srancs!

And you, what do you imagine? Be creative!

P.S. Sorry if the topic already exist, I did search the forum but didn't found anything except for TV show.
Just having the book series is fine for me, but what it does need is more publicity and a broader audience (not that the books themselves should accommodate for this, they just need to be promoted more), and importantly, more fan-art. 

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 02:35:51 pm »
Just having the book series is fine for me, but what it does need is more publicity and a broader audience (not that the books themselves should accommodate for this, they just need to be promoted more), and importantly, more fan-art.
I like it when I just need to quote someone and not bother with writing my views down! The books are enough for me, too.

Jabberwock03

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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 03:34:35 pm »
Just having the book series is fine for me, but what it does need is more publicity and a broader audience (not that the books themselves should accommodate for this, they just need to be promoted more), and importantly, more fan-art.
I like it when I just need to quote someone and not bother with writing my views down! The books are enough for me, too.

Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
Why not a comics about a scalper or something?

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 04:09:52 pm »
Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
As a general rule, I detest spin-offs. It they involve other authors, I don't acknowledge their existence altogether.

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 04:24:28 pm »
Just having the book series is fine for me, but what it does need is more publicity and a broader audience (not that the books themselves should accommodate for this, they just need to be promoted more), and importantly, more fan-art.
I like it when I just need to quote someone and not bother with writing my views down! The books are enough for me, too.

Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
Why not a comics about a scalper or something?
I don't read enough to be familiar with various spin-offs, but I would be concerned that it would be a watered down version, or perhaps even a corruption, of the source material. Of course It'd be extremely cool to see e.g. the battle of Kiyuth on television, but on a whole I doubt they could stay true to the source material. Take e.g. Game of Thrones, I don't even watch it anymore because it's become so far removed from GURRM's books.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 05:28:33 pm »
Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
As a general rule, I detest spin-offs. It they involve other authors, I don't acknowledge their existence altogether.

I don't put restrictions on artistic expression. There have been several fine interpretations of art that are great. I judge the work for what it is without consulting crowd opinion and/or relationship to the original artist.

To the OP: Episodic TV ( like GoT ). I think cable tv has drawn amazing talent over the last decade and could pull it off nicely.
May your death be soon, slow and painful

Jabberwock03

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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 08:33:10 pm »
Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
As a general rule, I detest spin-offs. It they involve other authors, I don't acknowledge their existence altogether.

In my mind, it was obvious that Bakker would be at the story part of the new media.

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2018, 04:07:42 am »
I don't put restrictions on artistic expression. There have been several fine interpretations of art that are great. I judge the work for what it is without consulting crowd opinion and/or relationship to the original artist.
Theoretically, I agree. In practice, I got burned so often that a defense has formed.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2018, 10:58:44 am »
I don't put restrictions on artistic expression. There have been several fine interpretations of art that are great. I judge the work for what it is without consulting crowd opinion and/or relationship to the original artist.
Theoretically, I agree. In practice, I got burned so often that a defense has formed.

I hear ya - for every one that's a gem, there's probably 10 that are abominations. But that doesn't stop me from prohibiting myself from having expectations.
May your death be soon, slow and painful

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2018, 11:32:10 am »
I hear ya - for every one that's a gem, there's probably 10 that are abominations. But that doesn't stop me from prohibiting myself from having expectations.
There are correlations, though. For example, when a series starts to employ other authors than the original one(s), its quality suffers. I've seen it with "DragonLance" (important, because that series was way, way less than stellar to begin with), with many anthologies "in the world of" Tolkien, even with "The Wheel of Time". Granted, the last one was inevitable since the original author died before finishing the series. And I'm saying this while considering Brandon Sanderson a good writer and being very grateful for his work on "The Wheel of Time".

And then there are series that employ many writers from the start. To date, I haven't read anything good from that crowd.

It's not about not giving people a chance to create good works, it's about empirical evidence. Essentially, I agree with Martin here. It's better for writers to create their own worlds. Gives them more freedom, at the same time requiring more thought and discipline.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2018, 11:44:49 am »
I hear ya - for every one that's a gem, there's probably 10 that are abominations. But that doesn't stop me from prohibiting myself from having expectations.
There are correlations, though. For example, when a series starts to employ other authors than the original one(s), its quality suffers. I've seen it with "DragonLance" (important, because that series was way, way less than stellar to begin with), with many anthologies "in the world of" Tolkien, even with "The Wheel of Time". Granted, the last one was inevitable since the original author died before finishing the series. And I'm saying this while considering Brandon Sanderson a good writer and being very grateful for his work on "The Wheel of Time".

And then there are series that employ many writers from the start. To date, I haven't read anything good from that crowd.

It's not about not giving people a chance to create good works, it's about empirical evidence. Essentially, I agree with Martin here. It's better for writers to create their own worlds. Gives them more freedom, at the same time requiring more thought and discipline.

I don't share your self imposed modeling of taste, I follow no rules, I don't resign myself to disappointment before reviewing the work - I'm open to anything, including another author jumping in to finish an author's work, not only could the work not suffer, it could well soar.
May your death be soon, slow and painful

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 12:03:58 pm »
not only could the work not suffer, it could well soar.
That's why I can agree only in theory. It could, yes, but I have never seen that happen.

And it's not that I model my taste, I save my time. I'm really not able to read anything there is to read, so if there is little chance for something to be good, I avoid it. It's not strict, I can be persuaded to change my stance on a particular work. Like, I've finished the first book of "Codex Alera" even taking into account I initially judged it really boring. But I had some suspicions about the series getting more to my liking somewhere along the line, and MSJ was able to confirm them. But that's much more than I can say about spin-offs or sequels written by other writers.

I have another example. I love "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (it's a TV Show), so naturally, when Joss Whedon (the creator of Buffy) decided to continue it as a comic after the show was cancelled, I tried it out. And discovered that it doesn't work in another medium. Like, it had everything I enjoyed about a Joss Whedon's show, except it didn't work. Without living actors actually speaking all of his - usually great - lines they felt empty and artificial. There was nothing left where before I'd seen endearing characters. In this example, the original author remained, only the medium changed.

My problem is, I don't see positive examples, only negative ones.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 12:59:13 pm »
not only could the work not suffer, it could well soar.

My problem is, I don't see positive examples, only negative ones.

So you're perpetually disappointed with translations, I take it. Kaufmann's translations of Nietzsche into English were quite the read ( back in the day, appears he's under scrutiny as of late ) and there are examples of translations being "better" then the original work as the translator needs to be more than bi-lingual, but be a writer in their own right. So you don't read Russian translations of any American books? Recommend you consider as learning English is cool and all, but reading an American novel in English would not be the same as reading it as an American would. I'm not going to learn Russian so I can read Dostoevsky, it would not be the same as reading it as "a Russian". Translations are my best course. Learning Russian would be cool, don't get me wrong - but doing so to read Russian novels in the original Russian language would not proffer the experience of a native reading it - even if I mastered Russian, immersed myself in Russian culture, living in Russia for decades, I would not be reading it as a Russian.

I digress - well, if you're comfortable in your cage, I won't let you out.  ;)
May your death be soon, slow and painful

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2018, 01:38:33 pm »
So you're perpetually disappointed with translations, I take it.
Oh yes, but for a different reason altogether. They are just bad. By which I mean factually wrong. By which I mean translating yes as no. And that's not even attempting to talk about style or actual artistic merit.

I can even write a prolonged example involving TTT's glossary to give you an idea just how bad it is.

So you don't read Russian translations of any American books?
Written in English, not necessarily American, yes. For 10 years now, I think.

Recommend you consider as learning English is cool and all, but reading an American novel in English would not be the same as reading it as an American would.
All people read differently and see different things. I assure you, your understanding of Dostoevsky would be sufficient if you read a - mythical - good translation. Yes, you would probably need to consult an encyclopedia more than once to understand some realities he's writing about, but there wouldn't be an inherent untraversable gap in your understanding if you actually want to understand.

Sure, you'll see some things differently considering your different cultural upbringing, but that doesn't diminish your understanding. If anything, it'll enrich mine if you share yours with me.

I would not be reading it as a Russian.
Russian, American, French, Chinese, I don't really see an intrinsic distinction. It's about learning and wanting to understand. Culture is a big thing, no question, but it doesn't strike me as even close to being that ingrained. Also, you should take into account the fact that Russia is pretty much a Western culture that's consuming American content for decades. Like, people here watch American TV, go to American movies, read American books - American content has a larger percentage of the market than whatever passes for modern Russian culture. In reality, Russian identity died with the Soviet Union. Right now it's a cadaver. It might not ever regenerate.

Sad, yes, but that's what I see.

That being said, some things are slowly becoming better. Very slowly.

I digress - well, if you're comfortable in your cage, I won't let you out.  ;)
I was kinda hoping you'll have some good examples. We don't have to agree about them, just something that worked for you.

I maintain that I'm not being adamantly dismissive. I simply employ a strategy (based on my experience) for getting enjoyable content. It's like choosing food, only for books.