TDTCB, Ch. 11

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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2013, 11:42:45 am »
Quote from: Madness
Sarcellus working to replace Esmenet as contingent... smart as fuck, lockesnow. My jaw dropped reading that one.

However, I feel like there's still shadowy happenings here. The only piece of evidence that the Consult has that Achamian is anymore wise to them than the rest of the Mandate is the episode in the market, where Achamian misinternalizes the man following him as Luthymae and thus, a threat, whereas the Consult reads this action as Achamian stepping up his game.

Also, this is after the Consult have already 1) pumped Esmenet for information and gave her reason to leave the city, 2) followed her from the city and her embryotic circumstances to guide her passage, 3) made sure that she immediately experiences a peak of mortal pleasures among humankind. This is in stark contrast to how they treat Achamian's other informants... Geshrunni, Inrau.

Is it that they don't understand love truly and thus don't understand why Achamian spent time with her? So they treat her as an anamoly and she randomly survives and gets where she needs to be for the unfolding narrative based on information that Achamian never gives to his informants...

Just seems strange.

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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2013, 11:43:20 am »
Quote from: lockesnow
You presume the Consult to have all the agency there. we have a couple options.

Consult is guiding Esmenet through these events and have agency over her.

Esemenet is guiding Esmenet through these events and has agency over herself because she is become kahiht or will be kahiht later on (what comes after determines what comes before?)

Gierra/Yatwer is guiding Esmenet through these events and is unwittingly utilizing the Consult to use Esemenet--Remember the gift of the gold coin and the prayer Esmenet says before leaving the city.  Being a god's avatar explains why she is able to leave the grips of Sarcellus.

The Whore/Fate is guiding Esmenet through these events because Akka is her avatar and she is giving him Esmenet.

The World Conspires.

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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2013, 11:43:27 am »
Quote from: Madness
Those are all possible. Damn.

For the moment, mundane value, let's take agency - obviously, in light of AE, we need to take the existence of the Gods seriously. Esmenet herself expresses very little of it in the Harlot's chapters. Her ignorance is used as a tool by those around her.

(click to show/hide)

Hm... The Consult doesn't kill Esmenet because a) she has Achamian's advice, b) she leaves the city to find her love immediately and tell him about those watching him? Why do they send Sarcellus after her? Is it because of her flight towards Achamian?

Again, she's not doing these things for any good, practical reason... She's doing it to warn her lover. Yet the Consult think she's a player. Dissonance in my reading, at least.

For my money, Options 1) or 3), lockesnow.

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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2013, 11:43:36 am »
Quote from: lockesnow
Quote
Why do they send Sarcellus after her? Is it because of her flight towards Achamian?

One, you're presuming the Consult send Sarcellus after her.

possibilities:

1) Sarcellus is dispatched to Momemn, with the rest of the Maithanet contingent, he is part of a body/honor guard for the person who will make the crucial decision as to whether or not the indenture will be signed.  Sarcellus has to go because Maithanet makes him--Maithanet of course wants Sarcellus gone because he is a skin spy, but he cannot move openly against him, so he needs to send away the skin spy on 'high profile' missions where they cannot simply disappear or be 'killed off' when the skin spy shifts faces and attempts to return--Sarcellus, deeply fucking pissed because he just lost his position as one of the highest placed skin spies runs into Esemenet by happenstance.  He saves her for a couple reasons: one pheromones lingering from the Old Father makes her irresistible, two he thinks he might be able to salvage this assignment and get some gain for the Consult from it by gaining information on the Mandate's position and plans within the holy war.

2) Sarcellus is dispatched to Momemn by Maithanet because Maithanet WANTS him to rescue Esmenet, "Assist Drusas Achamian..." is what Maithanet puts in the letter to Proyas, so Maithanet may well know about this fellow, and may have probability tranced out that Esemenet is for some reason a factor.  He would have included her because he probably would have had her watched after Inrau's death--Inrau's death would have led his spies to watch Esmenet, the spies would have reported that the whore Inrau visited was living for months with a Mandate sorcerer.  His spies may have reported that Esmenet left one day, and the night before she left, a cloaked man entered by the door but was never seen leaving.  Maithanet could have sussed a lot of importance out of that information.

3) The Consult orders Sarcellus to rescue Esmenet because they have some further use for her.

But I think the important bit in all this, why did he/they rescue her talk is the assumption that the Consult was pursuing her, that seems highly unlikely since Sarcellus could not simply abandon his post, he had to be ordered to take a journey by Maithanet.  And we seem to get some soft indication that Esmenet has an unusual amount of compulsion over the skin spy because she was interroraped and there is some sort of lingering 'mark' on her.

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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2013, 11:43:44 am »
Quote from: Madness
I'd hazard a mix of 1 and 3.

I guess, to reiterate more specifically, though you bring up excellent points: Can Sarcellus save Esmenet from the townfolk, if that is not Consult instruction?

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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2013, 11:43:52 am »
Quote from: lockesnow
They seem to have some independence and agency, they are not automatons.

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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2013, 11:44:00 am »
Quote from: Callan S.
Depends on whether consult commands give a range or field (or frame) to their command, to which the operative can work inside of.

An asset for tailing can just as much be an particular kind of asset. Like gold that walks around - if someone tries to steal it, rather than breaking protocol to save her, the initial directive involved the value of that asset.

But given their hard emotional drives, I think there's little capacity for a skin spy to actually drift from commands, as like some kind of deep sea fishing net, the emotional drive is wide and deep, scooping up any wayward fish/thought. The skin spy admitting to failing protocol might simply be an example of it's masters own bias towards not admitting it's own failure.

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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2013, 11:44:09 am »
Quote from: Madness
I offer Aurang's conversation with Maengi as evidence then... Shouldn't the Warlord betray some surprise, if elevating Esmenet to "worldly heights of circumstance" isn't check number three on Rick's To-Do List?

Wilshire

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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2014, 04:44:04 pm »
Though it was already covered, Akka, in year 4111 year-of-the-Tusk, had spent 39 years with the Mandate. (page 318 USA small edition paperback). The Glossary says that he is 47 years old, which is probably his age at the start of the TDTCB, which is year 4110. This makes Akka 48 years old in year 4111 year-of-the-tusk

Also noted that Akka is ever the devout friend. He was willing to risk inciting a riot, not to mention the attention of the SS and the College of Luthymae, to capture a man he suspected of being involved with Inrau and Esmenet. A good man to have at your side.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 05:39:00 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.