Kellhus & Seswatha

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Madness

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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2013, 09:33:39 pm »
If he does have agency, then Seswatha wanted to give Kellhus the gnosis after their chat.

This would have interesting implications to me.
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Inraus Ghost

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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2014, 11:33:40 pm »
I think that Akka, and previously captured Mandati being physically unable to share the secrets of the Gnosis, along with the dreams (at least in Akka's case) apparent relevance to current circumstances indicates that Seswatha is an independent agency.

 Possibly his soul was preserved from hell/oblivion in his heart and the ritual involved with becoming a full member of the Mandate places a bit of it in a Madati before they are allowed to learn more than the basics.

Damn I want to hear that conversation.


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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2014, 01:06:16 am »
I think that Akka, and previously captured Mandati being physically unable to share the secrets of the Gnosis, along with the dreams (at least in Akka's case) apparent relevance to current circumstances indicates that Seswatha is an independent agency.

This could simply be evidence that the memories of Seswatha's life are far worse than any torment that contemporary Earwan torturers can achieve, rather than proof of agency. Everyone is an understudy to Mekeritrig and the Mangaecca.

Possibly his soul was preserved from hell/oblivion in his heart and the ritual involved with becoming a full member of the Mandate places a bit of it in a Madati before they are allowed to learn more than the basics.

This is a theory I've seen to degrees of extremes. I think, it fitting and possible.

Damn I want to hear that conversation.

Yup. +1.
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Inraus Ghost

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« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2014, 02:03:32 am »

This could simply be evidence that the memories of Seswatha's life are far worse than any torment that contemporary Earwan torturers can achieve, rather than proof of agency. Everyone is an understudy to Mekeritrig and the Mangaecca.


My son has my copy of TWP so I don't have direct quotes but when Xin is about to have his eyes put out and Akka is wavering, the Seswatha within "says" something along the lines of "who is this man to me" and Akka is physically unable to speak of the Gnosis. Yes, Mekeritrig and the consult make conventional torturers look like schoolyard bullies and the torments Seswatha witnessed and experienced vastly exceed what Akka suffered. But I'm not convinced that would explain why cants of compulsion do not work, nor the mental block that keeps them from teaching the Gnosis to unapproved students.

Madness

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« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2014, 01:47:51 pm »
There is also a "But I've suffered more" in Iothiah.

Achamian might just be commenting on Xinemus' degradation, though.

I just don't know. delavagus (a friend of Bakker's who has his draft on Three Pound Brain: Three Roses, Bk. 1) is explicitly writing a character who is physically possessed by an entity spanning multiple points in space - though, that actually might not be that obvious in the currently linked draft. I think if Bakker was doing something like this with the Mandate it might be more evident? Maybe?
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MrGanondorf

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« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2014, 10:53:28 pm »
Say IF Seswatha is secretly hanging out in every mandati soul and IF Seswatha is damned, then it seems that he would have little personal incentive to concluding a war with the Consult.  Could it be that the Consult could have been wiped out ages ago, but Seswatha *prolonged* the affair?  If that's the case, then S has got to keep it going indefinitely (ala Shauriatas) or bring about the end of damnation.  Sorry, I just can't help myself sometimes.  Ptttthhhhhh

Wilshire

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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2014, 09:44:33 pm »
Seems legit. Perhaps after all these years, some of the carriers of his fragmented soul (i.e. mandati) were dragged before the IF. Seswatha was eventually converted to the Consult, but had no way of changing the path he set in motion, until Achamian came along. For whatever reason he was able to change the dreams for him, and Akka is actually working for the consult, unbeknownst to him. Seswatha had him find Ishual so that he could destroy it, go into some kind of blind rage and burn down everything that resembled Kellhus.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2014, 02:04:32 pm »
I hadn't thought about dragging a mandati in front of the IF.  I had assumed that if Ses saw it, it would have been in the original penetration into Golgotterath, then Ses' subsequent actions were like the Consult's in that he wanted to achieve immortality, but he also wanted to be the only one.

If Ses is not tainted, what happens to a mandati riven by both Seswatha's dreams and forced to view the IF? 

Wilshire

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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2014, 03:39:20 pm »
If Ses is not tainted, what happens to a mandati riven by both Seswatha's dreams and forced to view the IF?

They are cognitively unable to deal with their situation and their brain just shuts down. Vegetative state.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2014, 05:49:16 pm »
If Ses is not tainted, what happens to a mandati riven by both Seswatha's dreams and forced to view the IF?

They are cognitively unable to deal with their situation and their brain just shuts down. Vegetative state.

Take his body down to the lab and hook him up to the axolotl tank.

Wilshire

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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2014, 08:54:40 pm »
If Ses is not tainted, what happens to a mandati riven by both Seswatha's dreams and forced to view the IF?

They are cognitively unable to deal with their situation and their brain just shuts down. Vegetative state.

Take his body down to the lab and hook him up to the axolotl tank.
Now you're getting into Hyperion territory ;) Hooking up peoples brains and siphoning off computing power.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2014, 07:36:49 pm »
I wonder if Seswatha warned (or deliberately avoided warning) Kellhus about the
(click to show/hide)
.  If I were Kellhus, I'd keep on interrogating Mandati to see if the Seswatha's agree and learn stuff like the lay out of Golgotterath.

Madness

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« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2014, 02:45:19 pm »
I don't know if that is a spoiler but watch your subforums.
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Quinthane

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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2014, 04:05:57 pm »
i suspect Kel wanted to know if Seswa was happy with his current cable provider.
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