Sorweel - Kellhus

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What Came Before

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« on: April 26, 2013, 04:30:32 pm »
Quote from: xanmcgregor
Hello,

I've been reading TJE for the second time and I still can't figure out one scene  :( . It's the ending scene of chapter 1 (Sakarpus) when Sorweel meets Kellhus for the first time.

--------- excerpt ---------
"Forgiven? Who are you to forgive?"
The scowl of an innocent twice wronged.
"You misunderstand."
"Misunderstand what?" Sorweel spat. "That you think yourse—!"
"Your father loved you!" the man interrupted, his voice thick with a nigh irresistible paternal reprimand. "And that love, Sorwa, is forgiveness... His forgiveness, not mine."
--------------------------
I don't understand this part... Why his father's forgivness? What needs to be forgiven?

Well, there is no mention of this scene anywhere else on the forum so I'm definitely missing something big :? Maybe it's the translation (I'm reading Croatian translation...)

Can anyone help, please?

What Came Before

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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 04:30:36 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
I think it is talking about Sorweel is crying in the arms of his enemy. Or something with regard to that. Read the paragraph before your quoted section.

Or really just being forgiven for crying in general because it is not a manly thing to do, but Kellhus is telling him that its ok to cry sometimes.

What Came Before

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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 04:30:43 pm »
Quote from: Madness
I cannot wait to finally have a full set of books at my disposal again. Sheesh.

The way I figure it, mcgregor, Sorweel spends the entire flight from the wall, feeling guilty about fleeing from whatever happens to Harweel - which is something I'm damned confused about... but more on that below.

Kellhus needs to take Sakarpus with minimal loses. The Chorae Hoard is second to one at Golgotterath (TTT Glossary) so Kellhus has to have the allegiance of Sakarpus' king - Harweel wouldn't tow the line, Sorweel will.

When Kellhus encounters Sorweel, we're simply experiencing the beginnings of classic Dunyain manipulation from a new perspective: Kellhus reads his thoughts and offers a salve for the young Horse-Lord's guilty heart?

EDIT: What does happen with Harweel?

A stork lands - following, which Harweel immediately tells his Boonsmen to take his son from the wall.
Storks are Holy to the Sakarpi because they follow Sranc on the plains. Weird because there is also one who watches the boundaries of the Topoi - that aspect reflects my own theory - among the Sranc when Sorweel and his slave meet the Goddess, Yatwer.

What Came Before

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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 04:30:51 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Madness
Weird because there is also one who watches the boundaries of the Topoi - that aspect reflects my own theory - among the Sranc when Sorweel and his slave meet the Goddess, Yatwer.

Oh? Missed that. Any mention of the birds at Cil or mengeda?

What Came Before

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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 04:30:58 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Isn't there always something to be forgiven?

To a maniplatory approach, a Dunyain approach, it's an almost always present hot button to press upon.

What Came Before

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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 04:31:03 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Moved the culminating thread to Storks, Faith, & Holy Animals.

Not only were we getting severely off topic but then I realized we'd been liberally quoting WLW in TJE subforum.

Sincere apologies to anyone who had things spoiled.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 08:27:07 pm by Wilshire »

Wilshire

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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2014, 04:10:22 am »
Didn't know where to put this factoid so I'm shoving it in here:
Bakker seems to have moved Sakarpus some few hundred miles East for TAE series. Check the maps from PoN, its much close to Tryse.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 06:16:43 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Francis Buck

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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2014, 08:18:03 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Moved the culminating thread to Storks, Faith, & Holy Animals.

I'm interested in checking out that topic, but the link doesn't work. Anyone know where it might be located?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 08:28:17 pm by Wilshire »

Wilshire

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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2014, 08:26:37 pm »
Yup that was linked to the old site. Here ya go: http://second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=452.0

The search function works pretty well you know  ;). Just make sure you are on the home page before you use it or it will only search the subforum that you are in.

BTW I updated the link you quoted, and the link in your quote, so that there will be no future confusion
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Francis Buck

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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2014, 02:53:58 am »
Awesome, thanks buddy. I didn't even consider using the search, lol.

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2014, 11:09:16 pm »
@ Madness, could you point me to the reference?  I can't find it!

Quote
Kellhus needs to take Sakarpus with minimal loses. The Chorae Hoard is second to one at Golgotterath (TTT Glossary)

I wonder how one acquires a Chorae Hoard?  I guess the Nonmen ransacked the Ark after defeating the Inchoroi, shipped all of the chorae out, these things are not forbidden like they once were because the long war has demonstrated their usefulness--history, circumstance, the rise of humans and the fall of nonmen see many chorae fall into human hands. 

After the Ark was sealed, there was no chorae getting out (assuming the aporetics did their work there) and I can't see the Man'gaecca handing them out as Halloween treats.

Could it be that Sakarpus was orignally founded by the nonmen as a chorae-holding facility?

EDIT: clarifications?

Madness

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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2014, 12:34:52 pm »
I found the original quote on ZTS but don't have my books to corroborate it anywhere in-text:

Because the Few can sense them, most scholars assume that the present day numbers haven't dwindled too much since the Cuno-Inchoroi Wars - it's primarily a question of distribution. There's some ten thousand or so estimated to be in the Three Seas. Then there's the famed 'Chorae Hoard' of Sakarpus, and the far greater hoard amassed by the Consult in Golgotterath.

No one knows how numerous the Nonmen are, only that they are dreadfully outnumbered by Sranc and Men
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2014, 09:43:39 pm »
I found the original quote on ZTS but don't have my books to corroborate it anywhere in-text:

Because the Few can sense them, most scholars assume that the present day numbers haven't dwindled too much since the Cuno-Inchoroi Wars - it's primarily a question of distribution. There's some ten thousand or so estimated to be in the Three Seas. Then there's the famed 'Chorae Hoard' of Sakarpus, and the far greater hoard amassed by the Consult in Golgotterath.

No one knows how numerous the Nonmen are, only that they are dreadfully outnumbered by Sranc and Men

Thank you, Madness!  This solves a long-time problem for me--I didn't see any non-sorcerers in tsa recognize a chorae as a chorae until Mimara.  So I wondered if you had to either be marked or have the judging eye to realize a chorae's sorcerous properties.  Not so!  The FEW can see them!  Thank you for clearing that up.

Also, I'm wondering what the 'far greater' hoard in Golgotterath does for local spells?  I'm sure Shae has got it all figured out, but it seems like a possibly uncomfortable relationship.