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Francis Buck

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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2014, 08:30:22 pm »
I think it's more likely we'll see Lil Kel react to his momma being killed by Fanayal (or someone allied with him). And the answer is: going completely apeshit on everyone in the Andiamine Heights. I actually think Kellhus planned for this (not necessarily Esmi being killed, just Kel being able to wreak utter havoc on anyone occupying the Heights).

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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2014, 10:25:33 pm »
A spontaneous explosion of water?
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Wilshire

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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2014, 04:10:57 pm »
No, no water. Meppa is the Last. Kelmomas will just rampage about in the secret halls murdering and eating his kills. Fanayal will regret stepping into the Heights.
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« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2014, 10:57:58 pm »
Lol - it cannot be so simple. Surely Kelmomas will leave the Labyrinth and return to his mother... broken, maybe.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2014, 06:10:03 pm »
Nah not so simple, I just refuse to believe there will be more Water-Bearers. Don't know why, but I just want that story arc to end with Meppa. I like to think that Bakker enjoys ending story arcs before the reader is ready, so I want whats dead to remain so. I'll let the dreamers keep dreaming though.
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2014, 03:20:31 pm »
The Psukhe will rise again.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2014, 03:29:41 pm »
Its secrets die when Meppa is vanquished by some nefarious or ironic means, hopefully via a chorae though. Unless Kellhus comes back, I see no way he can be overpowered. Whatever Magi Kellhus left behind will be washed away, so some other method, the WLW perhaps, will have to destroy him.... I wonder what the 100 see when the Cishaurim Sing? How will Mr. WLW react when the God's own works are poured against him.
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 03:57:56 pm »
Rumours suggest that the Psukhe has arisen spontaneously before ;).

I would love to see the Warrior and Meppa go at it... I'm pretty sure Meppa is an X-factor still. He might side with Esmenet over Fanayal. But the Warrior is going to oppose Fanayal to get Psatma back, obviously.
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themerchant

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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 04:14:47 pm »
Wonder if Kelhus left any sorcerous weapons kicking about. Or if he took them all with him.




Wilshire

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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 04:30:11 pm »
Anyone watch/read Full Metal Alchemist? Maybe somebody has carved one of those fancy anti-sorcery circles around the entire town, and someone will complete it as Meppa marches to the heart. Suddenly you've got a bunch of writhing schoolmen, holy or otherwise.

[edit]
Is it confirmed either way that those artifacts such as the circle or collar are from Schools other than the Aporose? It just seems odd to me that you create anti-magic devices with... magic.
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« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 04:54:38 pm »
Wonder if Kelhus left any sorcerous weapons kicking about. Or if he took them all with him.

I'm sure Kellhus still plans on exercising his agency in Momemn somehow. I'm also dead-sure there are sorcerous weapons to come in TUC.

[edit]
Is it confirmed either way that those artifacts such as the circle or collar are from Schools other than the Aporose? It just seems odd to me that you create anti-magic devices with... magic.

Yes. And the Agonic Collar and Agonic Circle seem to turn sorcerous expression into pain. It doesn't seem a direct negation (like the Aporos), more so a transmutation of direction - like the Sorcerer's Cant is turned on themselves.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2014, 05:50:56 pm »
That is a fair point, but still I wonder if the Anagogis schools could have stumbled upon the Gnostic ways, or the Aporos at least, if they followed the path long enough.

It seems to me that the Agonic collar/circle is just a metaphysical/intellectual  hop, skip, and jump away from a chorae.


If all sorcery is damned, would the Aporotic schoolmen be damned? Is restorying the world to the way it should be a damnable offense....
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2014, 08:27:57 pm »
That is a fair point, but still I wonder if the Anagogis schools could have stumbled upon the Gnostic ways, or the Aporos at least, if they followed the path long enough.

Bakker has mentioned that Gnostic sorcery is what Anagogic could be, if the proper conceptual leaps are made.

If all sorcery is damned, would the Aporotic schoolmen be damned? Is restorying the world to the way it should be a damnable offense....

Is all sorcery, sorcery? Is the Psukhe not sorcery? If it's not, might the Aporos be something different as well? If the Psukhe isn't sorcery, is it Thaumaturgy?
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Wilshire

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« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2014, 08:49:38 pm »
Bakker has mentioned that Gnostic sorcery is what Anagogic could be, if the proper conceptual leaps are made.

Thats what I was remembering when I wrote that, though I thought it was mentioned in the book somewhere. Noteably, I believe Akka himself says that the Anagogic Schools could never reach the gnosis on their own, which is in stunning contrast to the above statement.

Is all sorcery, sorcery? Is the Psukhe not sorcery? If it's not, might the Aporos be something different as well? If the Psukhe isn't sorcery, is it Thaumaturgy?
I'm probably jumping onto the Psukhe-is-Thaumaturgy train, and by extension that could put the Aporos somewhere else I suppose.

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Aural

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« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2014, 11:11:53 pm »
Quote from: Truth Shines
Reading this book for the third time, and stumbled across a sleeping T-Rex...  Did, did, did he really just accidentally give away the outcome of the Great Ordeal?!  :o   Or am I hallucinating?  ;)

USA First Edition 2009, Hardcover, Page 163-164:

"... an endless train of supplies wound in front of the southern horizon, bearing arms, wares, rations, and more rations...  Vast herds of sheep and cattle, bred solely to accompany the march, were also beaten across the horizon, so many that some Men of the Ordeal began calling themselves ka Koumiroi, or the Herdsmen -- a name that would later become holy."

I think he was giving us a clue that sheep will become holy in TUC, just like storks.