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MrGanondorf

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« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2014, 08:21:03 pm »
If all sorcery is damned, would the Aporotic schoolmen be damned? Is restorying the world to the way it should be a damnable offense....
I doubt the Aporetic school was capable only of producing chorae. A school implies a whole host of teachings, not a single usable technique.

That doesn't answer the question though. I think the School would be dedicated to the negation of other sorcery. If it all turns on the same mechanism as the chorae, i.e removing sorcery without leaving a mark, then I'd guess that it wouldn't damn the users...

For any aporetic quya in the Consult, I guess they must think that they are damned independent of sorcery?  Otherwise, what's their motivation to join and stick with other baddies?

Wilshire

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« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2014, 11:33:06 pm »
Not necessarily. The Consult's goal is not to redeem themselves, but rather to cut the entire damnation mechanism out of the picture. Why fix the symptom, i.e. being damned, when you can cure the source, i.e. destroy the Gods?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2014, 09:34:00 pm »
Not necessarily. The Consult's goal is not to redeem themselves, but rather to cut the entire damnation mechanism out of the picture. Why fix the symptom, i.e. being damned, when you can cure the source, i.e. destroy the Gods?

I see your point, I think, is it that quya who do not think they themselves are damned are moved for altruistic reasons to undo the damnation mechanism?  Or for selfish reasons, just in case they incur damnation before they die or if they might be wrong about their own eternal fate?

Wilshire

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« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2014, 01:14:58 pm »
I was just speaking generally. I also think that all the living Nonmen are damned, considering they are driven to atrocity in their day to day lives. But I also don't think sorcery itself actually damns anyone, aporetic or otherwise. .. So I guess I'm agreeing with what you said above.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2014, 03:36:59 pm »
I was just speaking generally. I also think that all the living Nonmen are damned, considering they are driven to atrocity in their day to day lives. But I also don't think sorcery itself actually damns anyone, aporetic or otherwise. .. So I guess I'm agreeing with what you said above.

I hadn't thought of that--I would find it stressful too!  :P  I wonder what Cujara Cinmoi would say now: is it better to avoid damnation by living forever or is it not worth the day to day anxiety?  I would find it hard to get through my morning coffee with damnation driving me to daily atrocities.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2014, 01:28:09 pm »
You assume that

1. Not having a mark means you are not damned

2. Aporetic sorcery leaves no mark.

3. The entirety of aporetic sorcery is just various ways to negate every other sorcery in the manner of the chorae

1 and 3 are unknown, and 2 is proven false multiple times in text. Chorae have a mark. A weird mark, a great emptiness. But it's a mark that an otherwise identical ball of iron that wasn't fashioned as a chorae would not have.

Wilshire

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« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2014, 04:59:21 pm »
"Mark" meaning bruising the Onta. I had not considered the other ways it may interact with the world, but as far as we know it does not mark existence in the same way that all other sorcery. Aporetic sorcery is unique.

"not having a mark means yo are not damned", while maybe not explicitly stated, can be assumed to be false. Non-sorcerers are damned. Mim's JE shows all the skin-eaters as damned.
I don't think being born with the ability to see the Onta makes you damned (Meaning those who could wield magic but chose not too).

The Mark that schoolmen have, to me, is entirely separate from damnation. I don't think lighting a candle with magic irrevocably sends ones soul to eternal torture. Of course, it potentially could, since we don't know much of anything about damnation at this point.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #52 on: June 02, 2014, 02:00:04 pm »
Not necessarily. The Consult's goal is not to redeem themselves, but rather to cut the entire damnation mechanism out of the picture. Why fix the symptom, i.e. being damned, when you can cure the source, i.e. destroy the Gods?

Thank you for posting this clarification, it is annoying when people say the rape aliens want to "save themselves" when they just want to rape more and more forever.
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

The Sharmat

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« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2014, 04:04:15 am »
The Mark that schoolmen have, to me, is entirely separate from damnation. I don't think lighting a candle with magic irrevocably sends ones soul to eternal torture. Of course, it potentially could, since we don't know much of anything about damnation at this point.
Given how cruel and power-hungry the Gods seem to be (if Yatwer is anything to go by), then I entirely believe something as innocuous as lighting a candle with sorcery could end with you being damned.

Wilshire

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« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2014, 02:51:26 pm »
Quotes that support that view (though directed at men, could well be attributed to gods):

"There was nothing the ignorant prized more than the ignorance of others ."
Drusas Achamian, Page 43 (USA Paperback edition)

"Above all the mighty detest change"
Drusas Achamian, Page 57 (USA Paperback edition)

"In desperate times, Cnaiur knew, men rationed nothing so jealously as tolerance, They were more strict in their interpretations of custom and less forgiving of uncommon things"
Cnaiur, Page 369 (USA Paperback edition)


After all, for the gods, these are the most desperate of times, and who is more mighty, and more ignorant, than the gods themselves?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Garet Jax

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« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2014, 03:56:45 pm »
After all, for the gods, these are the most desperate of times, and who is more mighty, and more ignorant, than the gods themselves?

Kellhus

Wilshire

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« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2014, 12:41:58 pm »
It was a rhetorical question :P
One of the other conditions of possibility.