[What Came Before]

i'm going to reread it again with that in mind. I'm sure it will be revealing.

[What Came Before]

So just reread the Inrilatas-Kelmomas conversation... Real, real good.

[What Came Before]

So just reread the Inrilatas-Kelmomas conversation... Real, real good.

"Who whispers to you!?"

[What Came Before]

"So why," Inrilatas asked, "do you think father has spared me?"
The Shriah of the Thousand Temples shrugged. "Because the eye of the World is upon him." - pg260

Eye of the World eh?
My first thought about this line was that the Dunyain somehow know the the World conspires. That its something that can be measured, grasped, accounted for in their calculations. Or is it normal to make World a proper noun?

Next, the phrase as a whole, reminds me of Cil-Aujas. The eye in the hearts. (Which, btw, WTF was that? Does anyone know? Always wondered...). Maybe Maith was alluding to something with physical meaning, rather than a metaphor.


pg 262
"Strange, Isn't it, Uncle? The way we Dunyain, for all our gifts, can neverspeak?"
"We are speaking now"
..."But how can that be when we mean nothing of what we say?"
"You confu-"

What does this mean exactly? I think that this is the most false statement, the biggest lie, in the entire conversation. Maybe, just maybe, Inrilatas is manipulating Maith and he truely doesn't mean a word of it, but I doubt that. If he was straight up lying, this conversation would have ended much more quickly. The only way to lie to a Dunyain is with truth.
Inrilatas aside, Maith surely was the one a bit off balance here, and I think a lot of what he said is filling with meaning and truth. Or at least it comes tangent to the truth.

pg 262
"What would they do, you think, if Men could see us? If they could fathom the way we don and doff them like cloths?"
Maithanet shrugged "What would any child do, if they could fathom their father?"
Inrilatas smiled. "That depends upon the father ... This is the answer you want me to speak."
"No. That is the answer."

What is the answer? What question is it answering? What just happened there ... The answer to the universe is 42 but that means nothing without the question.
This right here is huge. It is why there is so much debate about TTT, about Moe and Kel, about where Kel is going with his Ordeal. If all Dunyain are the same, they should all be seeing TTT in the same light, they should all be trying to "save" the world in the same way. There should have been no reason for Kellhus to kill his father.
Is Inrilatas like Moenghus? Does he not see the possibility that Dunyain, with all there intellecutal prowess, could somehow be different given all the same information? I don't even know if that is what Moe thought, but I think that it comes close to the truth.
Is Maith saything something here about the difference between himself and this brother? What differences could he be hinting at.
Always more questions...
 

pg262
"You really believe that we Dunyain differ? That, like fathers, some can be good and some bad?
"I know so"
"Oh, we have our peculiarities, I grant you that," ...
my bold

Why did he use that world right there? Was this a nod to Maith, saying that he has realized that earlier in the conversation Maith was lying about his other siblings? If they are all peculiar they should all be dead, or they should all be alive.

[What Came Before]

Interesting stuff Wilshire.

My thoughts on your transciptions.
pg 260.
...
Puts me in mind of Kellhus' journey to Kudea, when he says to the World, "I know you listen..."
Less a sign of Dunyain awareness and more a declaration of Maitha's acceptence of Kellhus as Prophet.

pg 262A
...
Inrilatas is presenting himself as a Dunyain without purpose, who refuses instruction.  Thus his conversations are meaningless.
I think this exchange is definately there to make the reader question everything the dunyain might say.
And I agree, Inrilatas is certainly lying or obfuscating here.

pg 262B & C
...
These passages together indicate that Inrilatas is arguing a Nietzschean worldveiw (no good or bad), which is appropriate for dunyain.  I think he is trying to lever into Maitha's training under Moenghus vs his latter conditioning from Kellhus (that Kellhus is a force for good on a mission from god).

[What Came Before]

The gods have burnt our ships...

My theory is that the empire is meant to collapse. It makes the new holy war have nothing to go back to. So they will fight simply to sing on in the losses they inflict in their enemy. Maithanet would have been too capable. Though I'm kind of surprised he didn't seem to consider the option - perhaps Kellhus helped trigger his assasination.

Speaking of, if Inralatus thinks it's the greatest madness to just kill uncle holy, what did Esme just do???


In other news, Inralatus is not cool, he is frightening!

[What Came Before]

You boys don't think that 262a suggests that Inrilatas is mocking his Uncle? Maithanet is looking for some meaning some purpose in Inrilatas designs, his conversation, which would enlighten Maithanet to just what is going on with the Empire and Esmenet. Inrilatas is just playing for time, his only goal is to get Maithanet's Dunyain scrutiny off himself for enough time to use his chains on his Uncle.

Though there is the second more generalized take on what he says, in that, nothing a Dunyain says can be taken as truth in and of itself. As Cnaiur would say, language is always a weapon, whether words of open arms or closed fists.

[What Came Before]

I think Inrilatas essentially tries to open up wounds, not like a doctor tries to open wounds so as to attempt to heal, but to simply open wounds. Weaponised philosophy. The words are just more chains around metaphysical necks, until he can do the real deal.

[What Came Before]

A scylivendi woman who gives birth to a white child has not born a true son. Not a true kinsmen. Just something other to be discarded. So the 6 children of Moenghus are the those that remain alive.

So, this reminded me, what about Moenghus' daughter that Skiotha's wife gave birth to? There is no explicit mention that the daughter was killed too.

Then, two seasons later, the other women strangled his mother for giving birth to a blonde girl. As they raised her corpse on the vulture poles, he began to understand what had actually happened. His mother’s death, he knew, was a destination, the outcome of a journey. And Moënghus was the traveller.

Bakker, R. Scott (2010-05-06). The Darkness That Comes Before (Prince of Nothing S.) (pp. 370-371). Hachette Littlehampton. Kindle Edition.

[What Came Before]

I've wondered about this child as well... in fact, I've considered that it might be Anissi.

[What Came Before]

I've wondered about this child as well... in fact, I've considered that it might be Anissi.

Unfortunately, she's a bit too young according to the glossary at the back of TTT.

[What Came Before]

+1.

You think a simple circa can stop my rampant speculations ?

[What Came Before]

I think Cnaiur just likes blonde women because they're foreign and exotic... and remind him of Moenghus, but without also reminding him that he's gayer than a treeful of monkeys on nitrous oxide.

So of course his "favourite wife" is half-Norsirai.

[What Came Before]

I've always appreciated one of the arcs of Cnaiur's perspective from "Anissi. The first wife of his heart" (TDTCB, p363) to "Serwe... The first wife of his heart" (TTT, p486).

Not my madness... Madness all the same.

[What Came Before]

I've always appreciated one of the arcs of Cnaiur's perspective from "Anissi. The first wife of his heart" (TDTCB, p363) to "Serwe... The first wife of his heart" (TTT, p486).

Not my madness... Madness all the same.

Pssh, I don't think of this as a sign of his madness, I think of it more like pre- and post-Kellhus perspectives... Pre-Kellhus Anissi took Cnaiur's beatings and still somehow played the loving wife, she was the only wife that could tolerate Moenghus within his heart. Post-Kellhus Anissi is off the radar and Serwe is his Proof and his Prize -- his only defense against Kellhus occupying his heart. Although he was super butt-hurt about Moenghus he instantly recognized the danger of the son, his world recycled itself the day he found Kellhus upon the mound. Kellhus represents a rebirth of all the shame and horror of Cnaiur's life... Am I way over-rationalizing the mind of a raving lunatic due to the fact that he is one of my favorite chars in any novel? Almost definitely, lol.