The Four Revelations of Cinial'jin

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H

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« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2015, 02:40:57 pm »
I think "you are my map. My chart" is implying something about her death allowing him to recall, and likely further cement, his memory of killing is daughter/wife. A map for navigating memory lane. Seems they need to repeat atrocities to remember old ones.

Indeed, it does seem that way, yet it is Cu’jara Cinmoi who seems to be saying it, meaning he too murdered his own wife and daughter?

I think the parallel between Conphas and Cu’jara Cinmoi is clear, I'd guess perhaps the former saving him from burning now is clearly drawn to frame something like the latter saving him from the "burning" of the Inverse Fire?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wic

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« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2015, 05:11:37 am »
Huh...how long did it take the nonmen to realize that atrocity and horror were the surest way to retain memory?

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« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2015, 10:14:27 am »
There seems to be anecdotal evidence that perhaps they realized that from the earliest of days.  It seems memory has always been an issue, even before they were made immortal, in this story we're told, "I must… I must remember. Even before the coming of the Flesh Angels, the Inchoroi, they [the Non-Men] live lives long enough for children to become strangers."

I would guess that in those days, it was a sort of "dirty secret" but one that could probably be swept under the rug to an extent.  Immortality multiplied that problem near infinitely.

“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2015, 03:32:32 pm »
In thinking more, I think there is a definite limit on what we can mine from this story.  So far, what I have gleaned is:

Cinial'jin kills his wife and doughter, seemingly over the womb-plague, leading credence to idea that the Womb-Plague did not kill explicitly.

There is an issue of Ishriol parentage, but I can't tell if this is something general, or something Aisarinqu says to goad him, or just an overall fact of Ishriol life (or life post-Womb-Plague).

There is the the theme of burning as a punishment.  This raises the question of what it means to be "half-burned" as Par’sigiccas appears.  Leading us not just to the question of who that is, but why does he appear with Skafra?

From there, we are presented a parallel between Conphas rescuing Cinial'jin and Cu’jara Cinmoi having done so in the past.  Saved him from who's punishment though?  I think the parallel sets us up to believe the both have saved him from the punishment for his daughter's murder.  Perhaps the crowd here is the general populace of Non-men then?  Perhaps this is what it means that Cu'jara Cinmoi is a tyrantm that he opposed popular will in order to "end" the Womb-Plague?

There are some themes I can't really figure though, like what the Way of the Upright Kings is or who is Lord Mountain.  Additionally, the involvement of Cinial'jin's sister's repeated manta, "she hated fear more" and the line "papa hates that he is my image" I don't really have an understanding of.

I don't know that there are answers in the text though...
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

locke

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« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2015, 01:15:06 am »
I thought conphas said the map thing

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« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2015, 10:14:11 am »
I thought conphas said the map thing

Indeed, I think you are right.  At points I found myself attempting to "read backwards" in order to reconstruct parts and I think I fell in to that trap there.  Time for some edits...
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2015, 11:31:10 am »
H - I think Lord Mountain is moniker for Ciogli. He was after all Ciogli the mountain due to him in fact being huge enough to break Wutteats neck with his physical strength.

I know Nonman size and growth patterns is questioned but I would love if it were a literal.

Still confused on Clerics actuall height, Akka coming to his elbow indicates he is very large.

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« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2015, 11:51:17 am »
That does seem plausible, but what does the scene allude to?  "The black shaft jutting from their hearts," an allusion to the smoke from the ruined Mansion?  Perhaps a forecast of the doom at Pir-Pahal?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

geoffrobro

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« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2015, 02:21:14 am »
i Found a mention of Pir-Pahal in CHapter 14 of TJE
 "Pir-Pahal, Achamian realized. The entire hall was dedicated to it, a great and ancient battle fought between Nonmen and Inchoroi. He could even recognize the principals: The traitor, Nin'Janjin, and his soverign, Cu'jara Cinmoi, the Nonman Emperor. The mighty hero, Gin'gurima, with arms like a man's thighs. And the Inchoroi King, Sil, armoured in courpses, flanked by his inhuman kinsmen, winged monstrosities with wicked limbs, pendulous phalli, and skulls grafted into skulls.

although not mentioned Cinial'jin was there at the battle and maybe sculpted into the wall, He's not a Nonman Akka knows.
"Wutrim kut mi’puru kamuir!"

Wilshire

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« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2015, 12:52:27 pm »
Interesting find. Akka's history lessons should be paid attention too.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2015, 04:30:41 pm »
In today's reread, I realize I am totally wrong, the battle in the blue text is Inniür-Shigogli, the “Black Furnace Plain.”  It is where Nin’janjin kills Cû’jara-Cinmoi, not Pir-Pahal.  I also needed to clean up some of the text, it had a good deal of Cinial'jin's 'present' burning in blue, mistakenly.

Also, Par’sigiccas, who is mentioned in the purple text as being half-burned, is mentioned as one of the first three we are told of at Inniür-Shigogli, in the blue text.  Perhaps the purple is the haunting vision he sees, after surviving Inniür-Shigogli?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira