Favorite Scenes

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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2013, 02:07:45 pm »
Quote from: Truth Shines
I can't say this is the my favorite scene of the book, if only because there are so many extraordinary ones.  But here's one that got me thinking -- a scene of reflection that itself triggers a reflection, if you will.

This is after the first "fireside chat" between Kellhus and Achamian.  Afterward Achamian returns to the lonely darkness of his tent and broods about the possibility of Kellhus being the Harbinger of the Second Apocalypse, and here's his reaction:

"Achamian began trembling, shaking with a horror he'd never before experienced while awake.

The No-God returning?  Please, sweet Sejenus, let me die before ---

It was unthinkable!  He hugged his shoulders and rocked in the blackness of his tent, whispering, "No!"  Over and over again, "No!"

Please... This can't be happening -- not to me!  I'm too weak.  I'm just a fool..."

Now, here's my reflection on Achamian's reflection: this is a work of high fantasy.  Every since the Council of Elrond, it's far from uncommon for some seemingly lowly character to assume the burden of the end of the world.  What have been their reaction?  Following the steps of Frodo -- some variation of stoic determination.

And here's Achamian, the intellectual of the story, a man who has a habit of self-reflection: wailing and gnashing of teeth -- I'm just a weak fool.  Let me die before a burden of such lunatic proportion even has a chance of falling upon my shoulder.

Human, all too human.  :(

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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2013, 02:07:54 pm »
Quote from: The Sharmat
It probably doesn't help that from the onset he has a far more intimate understanding of what such a thing would mean than say, Frodo has about Sauron and Mordor.

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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2013, 02:08:06 pm »
Quote from: Truth Shines
That's true, to a certain extent.  Yet I think there's something more going on here.  In these other stories (certainly including the mighty LOTR), no reader has any doubt about who will win in the end.  Sure, some details must be worked out.  Maybe some characters won't make it, but overall the "good" must triumph.  And it seems that makes the non-freakout reaction of the characters in the stories quite acceptable.  But for The Second Apocalypse, honestly even at this point (let alone in the first volume) I still have no idea what the end is going to be like -- if anything, the end gets more mysterious the more we go on.  That makes Achamian's reaction much more sympathetic and understandable -- the world really could end.

Also, speaking of Achamian having a more intimate understanding, it seems to me this is yet another instance of Mr. Bakker pulling off an amazing trick almost effortlessly here.  Think about it: what would be your reaction if some key character gets a prophetic dream and that turns out to be a big deal?  Eye rolling galore.  Yet by turning that dream into a real nightmare -- an endless series of nightmares seamlessly woven into a key character, his experience, his vocation, his personality, his development -- there is not the slightest whiff of hokeyness here.

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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2013, 02:08:10 pm »
Quote from: The Sharmat
We're looking back on decades of existence for the most renowned fantasy series on Earth. While the final outcome being the death of Sauron was likely never in question, the structure of the Two Towers and Return of the King, for a reader utterly ignorant of the story, could very well leave the impression that Frodo had died at Cirith Ungol. Unlike the films, the last you see of Frodo until over halfway through the Return of the King is him being stung by Shelob and his "corpse" taken to Cirith Ungol, while Sam picks up the Ring. By the time the book returns to Frodo and Sam, you've seen the scene at the Black Gate where the Mouth of Sauron offers Aragorn and Co Frodo's mithril coat. It really didn't look good for him.

But like Darth Vader being Luke Skywalker's father, it's simply impossible to go into that series and be surprised anymore.

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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2013, 02:08:18 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
You know, I never thought of that, and now I feel I missed an extremely important piece of that series that I can never experience.  What a shame.

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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2013, 02:09:13 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Kind of on that topic, I wonder about the 'book that shall not be named' - surely for future generations, they are gunna know the title when buying TDTCB. So do they miss out on that experience of not knowing? Seems unfair?

On the other hand, I suspect the supposed spoiler title will actually be highly obsfucated and only a few tin foil scarf wearers will get it in advance, so I'm guessing it wont be a spoiler at all.

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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2013, 02:09:19 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
I agree completely. I guess The Price of Nothing is a spoiler, as is TWP, WLW, TTT, and UC are all spoilers in their own right. Foreshadowing is much easier to see when you know whats going to happen. Its easy to see through the clues to the inevitable ending when you have already seen the end. I doubt the final title will be expectationaly spoilerific. Though who knows it could be "Kell and his reign as the no-god" or "A History of Nonmen: How they saved the world from Kell".

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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2013, 02:09:27 pm »
Quote from: The Sharmat
Kellhus Dies at the End.

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« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2013, 02:09:34 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
"The Kellhus that dies before"

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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2013, 02:09:42 pm »
Quote from: The Sharmat
"It Was All a Dream."

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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2013, 02:09:49 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
lol!

"Maggie Simpson did it!"

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« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2013, 02:09:57 pm »
Quote from: geoint
Quote from: The Sharmat
Speaking of Cnaiur, I can't remember specifically when it occurs, but there's a moment after reaching Momemn where for a brief instant Cnaiur actually feels horror and guilt for what he has delivered to the Holy War. That a Dunyain is a creature so terrible that even a Scylvendi shouldn't inflict it on his fellow man, even those that just exist as sacrifices to Lokung.
I agree with every word you said :D


I loved Cnaiur.  I have a thing about disfigured, tortured souls that I just sympathize with (Sandor Clegane, Cnaiur Urs Skiotha, Harry Potter...etc) 


Oh and jk I HATE Harry Potter  :evil:

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« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2013, 02:10:06 pm »
Quote from: Madness
I Lol'd. +1 for Cnaiur! Also, again, to all the spoiler names, that were suggested.

I had the opportunity of asking Bakker that once, Callan, and though, he's obviously been tight-lipped about it, he said he doesn't feel that TSTSNBN will, ultimately, spoil the experience for newcomers... which means it can't be a crazy spoiler.

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« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2013, 02:10:13 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
unless of course TSTSNBN is a phantom, meant to throw us off the scent.

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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2013, 02:10:21 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Juicy thought. Nice sig, lockesnow.