His PROOF...

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Madness

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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2014, 10:01:41 pm »
I've argued at Westeros that:
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 03:31:58 am »
Saying rape isn't about sex is like saying gluttony isn't about taste.

That said, Cnaiur is batshit and in this particular instance I think the raw violence and degradation of the act was the biggest part of it. I'd say it was composed of 60% raw "I AM THE MOST VIOLENT OF MEN", 30% "The Steppe is trackless" where it's just a means of breaking him and there are no taboos, and a slim 10% "Y'know, that dude's actually kinda hot."

Has anyone else noticed a trend of people assuming that bisexuals don't exist? Usually when a character like this turns up I see more than half the people concluding that they're gay and that any heterosexual act is just denial, an attempt to hide their real orientation, or just them trying to meet society's expectations; rather than the simpler explanation of the person just being sexually attracted to both genders.

Srancy

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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 09:03:50 am »
That's been an issue all the way back to the Ancients

Madness

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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 01:43:57 pm »
That said, Cnaiur is batshit and in this particular instance I think the raw violence and degradation of the act was the biggest part of it. I'd say it was composed of 60% raw "I AM THE MOST VIOLENT OF MEN", 30% "The Steppe is trackless" where it's just a means of breaking him and there are no taboos, and a slim 10% "Y'know, that dude's actually kinda hot."

Lol. Thanks for that.

Has anyone else noticed a trend of people assuming that bisexuals don't exist? Usually when a character like this turns up I see more than half the people concluding that they're gay and that any heterosexual act is just denial, an attempt to hide their real orientation, or just them trying to meet society's expectations; rather than the simpler explanation of the person just being sexually attracted to both genders.

Yeap.

That's been an issue all the way back to the Ancients

+1
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MrGanondorf

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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 03:47:43 pm »
Has anyone else noticed a trend of people assuming that bisexuals don't exist? Usually when a character like this turns up I see more than half the people concluding that they're gay and that any heterosexual act is just denial, an attempt to hide their real orientation, or just them trying to meet society's expectations; rather than the simpler explanation of the person just being sexually attracted to both genders.

You made me think of more from the books.  I think Akka had a male lover when he was in school.  That and there seemed to innuendos about his relationship to Inrau and Proyas.  Esmi and Serwe didn't mind sharing the same man, maybe they liked each other sexually too.  And of course the Inchoroi/Sranc don't seem to mind the gender of the person they're raping.  They would like this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/pornographydesensitized-populace-demands-new-orifi,6028/

Alia

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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 03:59:09 pm »
You made me think of more from the books.  I think Akka had a male lover when he was in school. 

Yeah, his name was Sancla and he died rather young.
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2014, 06:25:38 am »
Some parts of the Three Seas don't seem to even have a taboo against homosexuality. Aren't the Ainoni fine with it? I think the Scylvendi were the main ones that thought it was immoral, or at least a sign of weakness.

Akka doesn't strike me as the kind of dude that would diddle one of his students though, despite any attraction he might have. He's an upstanding guy and that's taking advantage.

Alia

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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2014, 09:46:19 am »
Especially not with Proyas, who was after all a royal son - and a very religious one to boot.
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

Borric

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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2014, 10:49:54 am »
If i remember right.
It was an affair that happened when both were students.

Madness

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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2014, 06:21:27 pm »
If i remember right.
It was an affair that happened when both were students.

You mean between Sancla and Achamian?
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locke

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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2014, 09:51:35 pm »
Especially not with Proyas, who was after all a royal son - and a very religious one to boot.

Quote
The Grandmaster’s lips tightened into a sour line. “Clever man. Clever little man. Tell me, Drusas Achamian, how is it that after all these years you still find yourself in the field, hmm? Did you offend someone? Nautzera, perhaps? Or did you bugger Proyas as a boy? Is that why House Nersei sent you packing those years ago?”

Achamian was speechless. They had researched him,

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02). The Darkness that Comes Before (The Prince of Nothing) (p. 490). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.
Achamian likes to think he was dismissed because he spoke a heresy, an interesting thought for a person whose very presence is an offense against god.  If House Nersei was willing to overlook the fact of Achamian being a sorcerer, they'd probably overlook the thing Achamian likes to think of himself as getting fired for.

But there's a half truth there, the thing Achamian thinks of was almost certainly the source of his falling out with Proyas, because to Proyas what he said was unacceptable--it was the moment when they 'broke up,' but it wasn't the reason he was fired.

Achamian probably buggered Inrau as well.

locke

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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2014, 09:56:30 pm »
Also, I don't think it is right of the reader to 'excuse' Cnaiur's rape of Proyas.  Cnaiur is definitely attracted to men, heck he has a scene in the Warrior prophet where he masturbates to thoughts of Proyas.

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2014, 11:57:43 pm »
Also, I don't think it is right of the reader to 'excuse' Cnaiur's rape of Proyas.  Cnaiur is definitely attracted to men, heck he has a scene in the Warrior prophet where he masturbates to thoughts of Proyas.

Man, I missed that one!  Psshuuu: the sound of the rape of Proyas passing my brain without getting in.  Aurang doesn't seem to mind, boys or girls; Shae/Esmi.  Moe is sexy, whoever he needs; Nayu/Maitha's mom.

locke

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« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2014, 06:56:55 am »
Also, I don't think it is right of the reader to 'excuse' Cnaiur's rape of Conphas.
Fixed that for myself, clearly a typo.  I don't think Proyas was raped, other than whatever skeevyness of power dynamics/age dynamics.  It's not like Earwa has age of consent laws, it's more like ancient times where you have your bar mitzvah and now you're an adult, no teenagers. if we were to assess it by today's standards their relationship would be statutory rape, of course.

Anyway, I found the quote I was looking for that illustrate's Cnaiur's crush on Proyas. It's subtle.  But remember Cnaiur has been REALLY close to Proyas for months.

Quote
And he thought of Proyas.

On the worst nights he hugged himself in the blackness of his tent, screaming and sobbing. He beat the earth with his fists, stabbed holes with his knife, then fucked them. He cursed the world. He cursed the heavens. He cursed Anasūrimbor Moėnghus and his monstrous son.

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02). The Warrior Prophet: The Prince of Nothing, Book Two (Kindle Locations 5799-5802). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.

btw, the "and he thought of Proyas." paragraph is preceded by two paragraphs, one thinking of Serwe as his Proof, the next thinking of sex with women and then the paragraph, "and he thought of proyas." which is clearly followed by a description of the turmoil he feels at his sexual attraction to men, including masturbation, and the paragraph ends with the invocation of the man he most loves, Moenghus.

Borric

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« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2014, 10:30:40 am »
If i remember right.
It was an affair that happened when both were students.

You mean between Sancla and Achamian?

Yes, somewhere in the Warrior prophet, Achamian reminisces about his student days.
And how sad it was to lose his friend and fellow student to some drunk with a chorea.   
He mentions his eyes, and how they had led them to being lovers for a time. 
I personally think this is the only instance of homosexuality by Achamian.