Why did Moenghus leave Ishual

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The Horned Mod

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« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2017, 06:34:23 am »
Quote from: Curethan
This is a speculation that I have raised before.
There are other points that I feel may be relevant.

Did the dunyain refugees discover Ishual by blind luck?  Where else would they have been headed in the ruined north under shadow of Golgotteroth?
It's possible that the unnamed old man who led them knew Seswatha, perhaps it even was Seswatha.
More likely than them finding the map at Sauglish and then just leaving it there.  (Although  Kellhus could have recently planted it there for Akka, I guess.)

When the Dunyain discover the last scion of the Anasurimbor, it is described as a fortuitous correspondence of cause.  What is the correspondence between the objectives of the Consult's greatest latter-day opponents and the dunyain's quest for the transcendent self moving soul? 
It doesn't seem like an appropriate way to exclaim that they found some excellent genetic stock anyway.

And then Moeghus leaves Ishual and enters the three seas in accordance with an ancient prophecy that only Seswatha and his gnostic heirs have perpetuated for reasons that seem extremely untenable.  Divine or engineered coincidence?

So many apparent coincidences suggest that its either all a part of some ancient plan of the dunyain founders that Kellhus is ignorant of, or the Whore or the solitary god manipulating fate on a massive scale.

If we take the interpretation of the white luck as a manipulation of causality, could we interpret the dunyain quest as one to obtain mastery of the power of the gods?  Could the no-god itself be important to the dunyain objectives?


I'm starting to think that maybe I ought to doubt Kellhus' entire perception of Ishual as fabricated.  The Dunyain are quite capable of conditioning this guy from infancy.  What are the Dunyain really like?   No one knooooooooooowwwwsssss

Thirded. We have very, very little knowledge of how the Dunyain actually operate on an administrative level, if such a thing even exists.

One nerdanel I have about the Dunyain actually came from writing my own epic science-fantasy thing:

In my story, time travel is possible both forward and backward, but you can't CHANGE history or the future. It's Harry Potter rules basically (which ironically make the most sense of all time traveling rules IMO, but of course Harry Potter didn't start this notion by any means).

To put it as simply as I can off the top of my head: In my story various competing forces have traveled back in time to Earth's prehistory, attempting to stop and/or alter the course of human development (because in the future humanity turns into a seemingly tyrannically evil galactic empire, etc.).

Yet all of it is futile. No matter how absurd or distorted prehistory becomes from these "invasions", the future -- our history as we know it today -- must happen. It already happened and was always going to happen. It's one of the relatively few hard laws of my world-building -- the universe is not a changing thing per se, but one , infinite thing which exists across all of time, eternally. It only appears to change due to restrictions on our own, human, mortal consciousness.

So, the idea is that the universe, literally Reality itself, is constantly working to make things "line up" if you will. Whether the universe does this consciously or unconsciously is basically irrelevant and deliberately ambiguous.

The point is, whenever there's some sort of timespace-distortion bottleneck occurring, the reaction from the universe must inherently be more and more extreme (or shall we say, miraculous). Under what might be called stable circumstances, these universal self-correcting manifestations are virtually invisible -- like idea often used in Synchronicity, where the butterfly that beats its wings creates a tornado half-way across the world.

But, when the things do become too disorderly, the universe must (by natural law) manifest a way untangle the knot. Sometimes, veeeeeery rarely, this results in the form of a person. These people are called the Unchosen, or the Mythraz. These are seemingly real-deal superhero/deities/etc., yet it's important to remember that:

A: The Unchosen never realize they are Unchosen, at least not until the "mission" is completed.

B: The Unchosen are ultimately just regular human beings, and all their powers come from (what appears to be) luck, self-determination, and/or straight up plot armor.

I have no clue if this is even tangentially related to what Dunyain are, but it's a thought!
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 06:56:12 am by FB »

The Sharmat

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« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2017, 09:26:17 pm »
Anyone else starting to think we'll never know and maybe the inconsistency about "tracking Sranc" is just a mistake by the author?


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« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2017, 12:45:16 pm »
Anyone else starting to think we'll never know and maybe the inconsistency about "tracking Sranc" is just a mistake by the author?

After his reddit AMA i believe he is deliberately giving slightly differing accounts.
Some entries are slightly different between the main body of the book, the subsequent glossary entry (if applicable), the What Has Come Before and then bits and pieces RSB reveals or obfuscates further in interviews.

He basically said that it's okay for us not to know the answer to something and our frustration is our own issue.
On the one hand, this has made me relax to a degree regarding some of the many many things i want to know. Knowing that they are deliberately left to our interpretation, and there is only a subjective answer and no objective answer is quite brave.

On the other hand, the search for answers is the primary(maybe secondary) motivation to keep reading. If i'm not getting the answers to main plotlines, am i going to continue reading.

I am. I understand that others, and we have seen some very frustrated fans in the forums, may not.


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« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2017, 02:23:07 pm »
This is the Thousandfold Thought subforum.
One of the other conditions of possibility.