Kellhus and the No-God

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« on: April 19, 2013, 02:41:42 pm »
Quote from: Bhaal
Dreams followed. Dark tunnels, weary earth.
A ridge, curved like a sleeping woman’s hip, against the night sky.
And upon it two silhouettes, black against clouds of stars, impossibly bright.
The figure of a man seated, shoulders crouched like an ape, legs crossed like a priest.
And a tree with branches that swept up and out, forking across the bowl of the night.
And about the Nail of Heaven, the stars revolved, like clouds hurried across winter skies.
And Kellhus stared at the figure, stared at the tree, but he could not move. The firmament cycled, as though night after night passed without day.
Framed by the wheeling heavens, the figure spoke, a million throats in his throat, a million mouths in his mouth …
WHAT DO YOU SEE?
The silhouette stood, hands clasped like a monk, legs bent like a beast.
TELL ME …
Whole worlds wailed in terror.

This is an excerpt from when Kellhus is bound to the Circumfix. I remember how intriguing it was for me when he started learning the Gnosis. I don't remember us getting a glimpse of how Kellhus acts (since reacts is not a word he's very much capable of) and assess Seswatha's dreams.
The tree here and the Nail of Haven - is that the tree under which he finds Moenghus (can't remember)? Is that the idea of Moenghus mixed with the No-God, or is it simply... the No-God (crazy I know). Also, the interesting part obviously is reserved for the new trilogy which I haven't read. Who's voice is he hearing? Is he communicating with the God or the No-God or both?
This Vision is perplexing.

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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2013, 02:41:57 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Oh, Bhaal. Firstly, I recommend you read the Aspect-Emperor books, so far - if you wait till the next book's release to read them all at once, your head may explode from the awesome ;).

The one thing I can offer is that I don't think Kellhus dreams the Dreams - The Grasping is a ritual that involves Seswatha's Heart and complicated Cants. It is the reason the Mandate dream the Dreams.

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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2013, 02:42:05 pm »
Quote from: Bhaal
Oh yeah, true that about the Grasping. So have I partially correctly suspected that the answers are to be found in the Aspect-Emperor books? Or at least hints...

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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2013, 02:42:13 pm »
Quote from: Duskweaver
Quote from: Bhaal
The figure of a man seated, shoulders crouched like an ape, legs crossed like a priest.
...
The silhouette stood, hands clasped like a monk, legs bent like a beast.
Like a fallen angel meeting a rising ape.

I think Kellhus is realising that being a perfectly rationalist-materialist Dunyain is not enough.

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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2013, 02:42:20 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Man, I love Pratchett's writing. Its a damn shame about his Alzheimer's.

Bhaal, you can't ask us such questions :P. All & none of your queries are answered in the Aspect-Emperor - in that order ;).

Btw, Duskweaver, I like the sig.

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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2013, 02:42:30 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
That description is rather confusing to me.

"Dreams followed. Dark tunnels, weary earth."
So wondering around (inside i guess) golgoterath...

"A ridge, curved like a sleeping woman’s hip, against the night sky."
Now we're outside it, and the curved hip nonsense is just a hill right? Not exactly talking about the arc, but rather where its at

"And upon it two silhouettes" ...
The horns.

"...black against clouds of stars, impossibly bright."
Uh the horns are black and the "clouds of stars" are bright. That confused me for a while


"The figure of a man seated, shoulders crouched like an ape, legs crossed like a priest."
So there is some fella sitting near/above/between/in front of the big ship?


"And a tree with branches that swept up and out, forking across the bowl of the night."
Since when where there trees. I thought there where no trees there.

"And about the Nail of Heaven, the stars revolved, like clouds hurried across winter skies."
Shit ton of stars spinning around the Nail. Got that much already.

"Framed by the wheeling heavens, the figure spoke, a million throats in his throat, a million mouths in his mouth …"
Clear No-God reference.

"WHAT DO YOU SEE?"
blah

"The silhouette stood, hands clasped like a monk, legs bent like a beast."
So this time the silhouette is not Golgotterath but the fella that was sitting like a monkey-priest. Now his arms are priestly (was going to say monkly but that would be confusing) and his legs are the beast [reminds me of sranc a bit]. I guess I can appreciate that inversion but its confusing.

"TELL ME …"
blah blah

"Whole worlds wailed in terror."
Worlds plural. Interesting. [Back, and to the left, there must have been a second spitter.]




Anyone care to tell me if that was about right?

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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2013, 02:42:36 pm »
Quote from: Madness
+1. You might have also highlighted the fact that Kellhus' fixed perspective is mentioned.

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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 02:42:42 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Madness
+1. You might have also highlighted the fact that Kellhus' fixed perspective is mentioned.
:?:

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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 02:42:48 pm »
Quote from: Madness
"And Kellhus stared at the figure, stared at the tree, but he could not move."

You broke everything else down so nicely, excepting: seems to me that Kellhus can be neither tree nor monk-like figure.

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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2013, 02:42:56 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
indeed I did.

"And Kellhus stared at the figure, stared at the tree, but he could not move. The firmament cycled, as though night after night passed without day."

Figure.. same guy as before.
Whats with the tree. Oh maybe its back to reality with the tree nonsense. He is seeing the tree that he is hanging from... that could make sense.
Night after night.... could be his repeated waking up at night IRL and always dreaming of the night whilst asleep. So he is spinning around the tree watching the night stars spin around him, and in his dreams the sky continues to turn although (dreaming) he is not moving.

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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2013, 02:43:06 pm »
Quote from: Madness
I like the idea of his experience's being shaped by the perspective of his physical vantage.

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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2013, 02:43:15 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
Quote from: Wilshire
Whats with the tree.

I figured its thematic reference.  Touchs off associations with Yydrigsal and the branching of fate - referencing back to warring for space in his dunyain blade training. 
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2013, 02:43:23 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Oh ok, I'll write it off as one of those literary things.
 
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2013, 02:43:30 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Ooh, don't write it off, homie. +1 for Literary Thing & Thematic Reference. Isolating the narrative's canon connotations is crucial with this one.

We have the twig at the beginning in TDTCB, Prologue. We have plenty of metaphors likening Tusks and Trees  - all of them dead, methinks. They all connect directly to Kellhus and indirectly to a number of other Pronouns.

Sorry, Wilshire, I edited in the spoiler tag. I realize Bhaal'd mentioned finishing the series but I've been slacking and falling into bad habits. We, at least, have to try and maintain spoilers relevant to chronological subforums.

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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2013, 02:43:40 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
D'oh.  Sorry!