TSA related art and stuff.

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« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2013, 08:59:20 pm »
Quote from: The Sharmat
I think the cover is at the least emulating the cheesy titillation of 70's and 80's scifi/fantasy novels, and is a bit sexist. However as a general rule I don't see how using the appeal of the female form is inherently sexist, any more than the admiration of any other trait a given female might possess. In fact this attitude to nudity has always struck me as more puritan and regressive than feminist.

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« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2013, 08:59:25 pm »
Quote from: Mats
Quote from: Callan S.
Fine. Rules:
After years of studying RPG designs on another forum where every five minutes people would use subjective words as if they were objective enough to base a rule around, I aught to have seen this coming. Really, fail on me.

'Stupid', 'Emphasize', 'Detriment', 'Pander'

These words hinge on a judge. Ask a thousand people to judge if these words apply, you wont get the SAME answer. Ask a thousand people to use a ruler to measure a piece of string, you will get the SAME answer (unless people are fucking around).

Do you use these sorts of words because you have chosen to be fine with a judge? And much like Earwa, what happens when the judge's justice doesn't actually go your way?

These aren't rules, until the terms would produce the ONE answer from a survey of a thousand people or so. So I'm not speaking to who's in charge.

Ugg. See, Callan, now I am wondering whether you are arguing in good faith, because I believe you know EXACTLY what I mean. Bodies angled in such a manner as to be completely impractical in context of the action depicted. Camera angles that serves only to enhance female sexuality, regardless of whether or not that is relevant to the scene in question. The only relevant discussion, as far I can tell, is whether it is in fact a problem. I'd argue that yes, obviously, it is a problem, because the relentless focus on female sexuality to the point where everything else takes a back seat is in inherently dehumanizing. That's what I think, anyway.

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Don't try cultural imperialism and think it's fine for you to take that position. In no way are you interested in me taking up a cultural dictatorial stance over you, me telling you what you are to feel, from now on, forever - what makes you think you're somehow more worthy of a cultural dictators position than I?

Chiefly because I am right.

Compromise is only the right course if all parties have valid points. Arguing for explicit depictions of the female anatomy for commercial gain is not something anyone needs to take seriously. Pointing this out is not 'cultural imperialism', it's moral certainty. And I get that you enjoy practising your Scott-impersonation, but his uncertainty-shtick doesn't actually apply to all situations and sometimes a no-compromise approach is required for societal progress. As I am certain all civil rights activist will tell you happily.

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See, to me I read this and think "And so people think they are pro feminism, then they ascribe some sort of derogitory quality to womens anatomy...bizaare! What about women who have gone through masectomies - how about a derogitory word for them and their 'leathery' scars as well?"

Yeah, that's called being a contrarian. It's rather unflattering.

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« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2013, 08:59:31 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Mats, I've enjoyed reading your opinions so far - six posts to know someone right ;)?

I don't disagree with much of what you've written, I just had a thought for you.

Quote from: Mats
Arguing for explicit depictions of the female anatomy for commercial gain is not something anyone needs to take seriously. Pointing this out is not 'cultural imperialism', it's moral certainty.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Do you mean that no one would take it seriously because that's not true in our society and culture today?

or

Do you mean that no one would take it seriously because it is in fact some of the founding research concerning psychology as an actionable discipline and the relationship because advertising and psychology?

I mean, in my experience and to my knowledge the psychorelations indrustry manages perspectives all the time, with these types of corporate relations bringing in huge incomes for graduates. And its only beginning. Pioneering Neuroscience is 100% still involved with the advertising industry.

Real curious about this.

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« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2013, 08:59:39 pm »
Quote from: Mats
Quote from: Madness
six posts to know someone right ;)?

Gosh, really? Then I better lighten my tone, I think. :p The crassness is an unfortunate side-effect of having limited my online forum time to when I am at work. If I am going to gnash my teeth, I might as well get paid for it.

Quote from: Madness
Do you mean that no one would take it seriously because that's not true in our society and culture today?

or

Do you mean that no one would take it seriously because it is in fact some of the founding research concerning psychology as an actionable discipline and the relationship because advertising and psychology?

You are right, of course, that was a terrible sentence. What I was trying to say was that there is no good reason - in the context of a feminism debate - to take someone seriously if they indeed did argue that exploiting female sexuality for commercial gain is perfectly acceptable/unproblematic.

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« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2013, 08:59:47 pm »
Quote from: Jorge
Yup, six posts is enough. Welcome to the forum.

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« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2013, 08:59:52 pm »
Quote from: Tony P
Quote from: The Sharmat
I think the cover is at the least emulating the cheesy titillation of 70's and 80's scifi/fantasy novels...

It's definitely cheesy, excessively so. I thought it was a screenshot from an early nineties Nintendo game.

Is there some sexism there, sure. Not enough to get excited about, IMHO.

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« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2013, 08:59:56 pm »
Quote from: Camlost
Just out of curiosity, not to derail the discussion, do any of us own a copy with said cover?

My PoN trilogy is the Canadian covers, which I think are pretty classy in their simplicity. Although, I'm now considering hunting down this cover just as an inside joke

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« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2013, 09:00:17 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
As fun as it is to see people argue, I think it might be scaring people away from actually posting more fan art stuff.

Maybe not, but I only saw 2 posts of art, both before the argument ensued, and none after.

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« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2013, 09:00:22 pm »
Quote from: Sideris
Alas! That is all the art within the fandom! Nah, I'm sure there's more. Arguing over covers, as you say, simply doesn't encourage them. Start a new thread for the cover hate.

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« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2013, 09:00:27 pm »
Quote from: Madness
I'm not sure that this thread was intended for "Fan Art," per say.

I've thought long and hard about the Fan Art issue. For those who have art, post it. Make a thread and show it off. If there is enough interest, I'll make a forum. I'm convinced, however, that many of us here simply want to witness the art and not necessarily create it.

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« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2013, 09:01:10 pm »
Quote from: Sideris
I can't draw worth a damn, so I throw my hat into the witness ring.

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« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2013, 09:01:52 pm »
Quote from: jmcdonagh
http://jackmcdonaghart.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/prince-of-nothing-the-second-apocalypse-sketches-etc/

Heres a few more sketches and concepts ive uploaded onto my blog. (click on permalink to view bigger) More updated stuff to come, full illustrations etc.

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« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2013, 09:02:13 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
Nice stuff, Jack.  Thanks for sharing. 
That would be toasted CJ in the second last one, yes?

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« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2013, 09:02:22 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Beautiful, jmcdonagh.

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« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2013, 09:02:27 pm »
Quote from: jmcdonagh
   

@ Curethan. It is indeed , nice spot.