DŻnyain society

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Wilshire

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« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2013, 12:11:57 am »
I don't think people will be able to tolerate a "the Female Dunyain did it" ;).

Who cares what "people" tolerate? And who are these people you speak of? They don't come around here. We're all fanatics.
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Madness

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« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2013, 02:53:07 am »
Lol. Well, I wish "they" would.

Am I fanatical?
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Wilshire

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« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2013, 08:44:16 pm »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Madness

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« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2013, 10:07:35 pm »
Serious question :P.

Also, I figured out how to get more emoticons... But there are no good packs, that I can find - I can assemble one for us in the future. For now, I seem to have switched to phpBB style?
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Callan S.

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« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2013, 09:10:20 am »
Whatever, the point is, the woman that are introduced have turned out to be very important. At this rate, the men will all become pawns. Hell hath no furry like a women scorned.
Big Sister?

Wow, could that be the big femanist slap in the face, having gotten into the good graces of a certain kind of readership? Push your shit this far and you will have a crushing uber female power structure over you? Nice to see those guys end up with some kind of damn challenge, whereas I'm not sure the rape scenes are...

Wilshire

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« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2013, 12:40:59 am »
Whatever, the point is, the woman that are introduced have turned out to be very important. At this rate, the men will all become pawns. Hell hath no furry like a women scorned.
Big Sister?

Wow, could that be the big femanist slap in the face, having gotten into the good graces of a certain kind of readership? Push your shit this far and you will have a crushing uber female power structure over you? Nice to see those guys end up with some kind of damn challenge, whereas I'm not sure the rape scenes are...

Anything can be taken as insulting if you want it bad enough.  ;)
And don't rule out female-raping-male scenes (its still rape if you use something other than a penis right?)
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Callan S.

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« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2013, 01:11:07 pm »
I'm trying to say the rape scenes are challenging to me as a reader. I'm guessing not so much to mysogynistic males (maybe I'm wrong - that'd be good!) and I'd like to see them get their cumuppance.

Madness

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« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2013, 02:38:06 pm »
Anything can be taken as insulting if you want it bad enough.  ;)
And don't rule out female-raping-male scenes (its still rape if you use something other than a penis right?)

Neuropath.

It didn't go over well with people ;).

And the rapist asks that exact question, Wilshire... is penetration more for some reason?

and I'd like to see them get their cumuppance.

No? They might feel shame as a result of revelation of self but I don't wish that trial on them, simply for something as arbitrary as "they deserve it." Too many are the creation of our society and cultures and of history and those ideas that come before, no?
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Callan S.

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« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2013, 03:13:50 am »
Mike, I think I'm implying an equality - them having to go through the same sort of thing I did - to basically put up with what is part of their culture. Even if you think neither should have to, it's atleast an equality.

Further, were talking about the fiction and responce to fiction level - actually no, I'm not super inclined to be forgiving so peoples reading lives are peaceful. People real lives, sure, I want them to be peaceful. But their reading lives - hmmm, not so interested in somehow preserving the peace there.

So yeah, their the creation of society and ideas that come before - in terms of reading lives, I'm fine with conflict erupting within that specific space, regardless of their victimhood!  :o  8)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 03:18:22 am by Callan S. »

Madness

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« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2013, 02:35:45 pm »
It is hard to gauge where you stand.

What is the equality you are implying?

Why do I have to put up with any part of my culture - or another's - when all is history and liable to change?

I do like the context of messy, fictive lives but, honestly, if you think our lives peaceful, you've still got the curtains drawn (you're not looking at the world).
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Callan S.

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« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2013, 11:43:14 pm »
I said I want peoples lives to be peaceful.

Quote
Why do I have to put up with any part of my culture - or another's - when all is history and liable to change?
Perspectives change. Actual history doesn't (which we can have a source to with emperic measurings, atleast)

And why do I have to put up with your 'I don't wish that trial on them'? You're grasping for traction upon what is just culture you can't readily see. I say this in a 'shocking, interesting idea' way  :), not in a meanie face way.

There's a rogue state, potentially, in books - pit traps, sometimes spiked. There is no 'why should I have to', there is only gravity. And impact.

Though with Dunyain like manipulation, it's nothing like gravity, even as it enacts as immutably as gravity.

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« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2013, 12:58:35 am »
Quote
Why do I have to put up with any part of my culture - or another's - when all is history and liable to change?
Perspectives change. Actual history doesn't (which we can have a source to with emperic measurings, atleast)

We're segueing but... no? 'Actual history' is something sufficiently far removed from 'history' as we have 'empirical' access to it as to be unknowable.

And why do I have to put up with your 'I don't wish that trial on them'? You're grasping for traction upon what is just culture you can't readily see. I say this in a 'shocking, interesting idea' way  :), not in a meanie face way.

There's a rogue state, potentially, in books - pit traps, sometimes spiked. There is no 'why should I have to', there is only gravity. And impact.

Though with Dunyain like manipulation, it's nothing like gravity, even as it enacts as immutably as gravity.

I don't understand what you mean.
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Callan S.

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« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2013, 09:51:24 am »
Quote
Why do I have to put up with any part of my culture - or another's - when all is history and liable to change?
Perspectives change. Actual history doesn't (which we can have a source to with emperic measurings, atleast)

We're segueing but... no? 'Actual history' is something sufficiently far removed from 'history' as we have 'empirical' access to it as to be unknowable.
To the point where it can all change at any old time?

No point remembering your PIN number then, I guess.

And why do I have to put up with your 'I don't wish that trial on them'? You're grasping for traction upon what is just culture you can't readily see. I say this in a 'shocking, interesting idea' way  :), not in a meanie face way.

There's a rogue state, potentially, in books - pit traps, sometimes spiked. There is no 'why should I have to', there is only gravity. And impact.

Though with Dunyain like manipulation, it's nothing like gravity, even as it enacts as immutably as gravity.

I don't understand what you mean.[/quote]
Can you tell me how many words you got through before that happened? Or is the version of 'I don't understand' which forcloses discussion? I've run into that a few times in various places, but still have trouble spotting which is which.

Madness

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« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2013, 03:17:54 pm »
To the point where it can all change at any old time?

No point remembering your PIN number then, I guess.

Well, you have the luxury of experiencing your personal history firsthand but good luck telling the history books how it went down.

And yes, at any old time, our historical narrative suddenly be overturned by evidence in the form of new archeological discoveries...

And why do I have to put up with your 'I don't wish that trial on them'? You're grasping for traction upon what is just culture you can't readily see. I say this in a 'shocking, interesting idea' way  :), not in a meanie face way.

There's a rogue state, potentially, in books - pit traps, sometimes spiked. There is no 'why should I have to', there is only gravity. And impact.

Though with Dunyain like manipulation, it's nothing like gravity, even as it enacts as immutably as gravity.

Can you tell me how many words you got through before that happened? Or is the version of 'I don't understand' which forcloses discussion? I've run into that a few times in various places, but still have trouble spotting which is which.

I literally can read all of that and have no definitive leverage for communication referencing. In stretching, I somewhat understand how we've generated the "I don't wish that trial on them" but then I don't understand the next point you are trying to make. As for the rest of it, not at all.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 03:19:34 pm by Madness »
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Wilshire

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« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2013, 05:38:52 pm »
I suppose this most recent conversation could be tied to the topic.

From what I understand, Callan wants to know how history is changed... right?

Look at the Dunyain. To them, the subjective history of the world doesn't include Sorcery/magic, though in reality it does exist. Kellhus learns of it, and suddenly history changed.

I think the confusion arose when you started talking about subjective and objective history. No, 'hisotory' doesn't change. What happened, happened. But history, or our understanding of  what happened, changes over time. Take some fact that you 'know' is correct.... Like the Holocaust for example, or the Moon landing. This historic events are so defining, its nearly impossible to conceive of a time when humanity forgot. But even today you can find plenty of people who don't believe that either happened, even though people that were there are still alive. Now take an event form a few centuries ago, and you can't ever be certain that it happend. The powers that be tend to change "history" to better suit them.
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