Sorcery

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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2013, 10:33:43 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Oh yeah the space-filling-curve stuff.

A curve that fills space? Nonsense. Thats either just a solid sphere, or a melon wedge. Either way, a simple magical knife should do the trick, maybe a ... subtle knife? As I recall the wielder of the knife before that idiot kid was given it was an old man.... just shae giving away his knife since he was feeling charitable. Wait, damn, never mind, Shae has all his fingers.

I think its mumbo jumbo magic to sound cool, never really meant to be scrutinized. Vague enough to sound cool, but with juuuust enough description to be plausible. Under the microscope it just seems silly.

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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2013, 10:33:48 pm »
Quote from: Meyna
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Meyna
Also, Anagogic sorcery isn't so bad. At least you have the Daimos!

The Daimos is a pretty good bonus, and it's odd that more sorcerers aren't using it. Sorcerers are already people with nothing to lose. Sure, using the Daimos does condemn you to be tortured in the afterlife by the demons you've summoned into the living world, but seeing as you're already damned by using any sorcery, being double-damned shouldn't be too much of a deterrent. It's a bit like giving someone the death penalty twice.

I guess it's discouraged because it's so dangerous. Demons seem like the unpredictable type.

Quote from: Auriga
I guess there are degrees of damnation in the afterlife of Bakkerverse - you could burn in hellfire for eternity, or you could burn in hellfire for eternity while simultaneously being raped forever by Zioz and friends.

We'll have to reference Ajencis' Inferno for that one.

Quote from: Auriga
I'm sorta looking forward to an epic Super-Daimos™ moment, where Kellhus and all the Scarlet Spires combine their Daimotic powers to draw out Yatwer into the physical realm and send her against the Consult. That would be a fun read.

Yes, perhaps a sufficiently adept user of the Daimos can summon the Gods themselves!

+1 for Super-Daimos™ :lol:

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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 10:33:54 pm »
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Meyna
I guess it's discouraged because it's so dangerous. Demons seem like the unpredictable type.

Maybe. Although the whole point of the Daimos is to enslave the demon to whoever is summoning it. From what we've read, the experience for the demon is much like a a human's experience of hell (and there's only way for the demon to get out of this - to follow the exact orders of its summoner).

It probably has backfired on people before. There's rumors about Kellhus being abducted while practicing Daimos and replaced by a demon, and all that.

Quote
We'll have to reference Ajencis' Inferno for that one.

Ajencis always knows best.

Quote
+1 for Super-Daimos™ :lol:

Super-Daimos™ isn't that big of a stretch, seeing as almost all the sorcery looks just like the Dragonball Z cartoons I watched as a kid.

A tip: Super-Daimos™ is a strong attack, but for extra power, it's best paired with Gnostic sorcery, like the ultra-powerful NONMAN HEXADECAGON SUPER-THEOREM™ and that devastatingly penetrating spell PHALLUS POLYGONUS™.

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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:00 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Lmao. +1 Auriga & Meyna.

There's this hypothesis, I believe Triskele spawned on Westeros, that Kellhus killed those two Ciphrang in specific and kept their heads to free Iyokus from the remaining Daimotic Damnation of the Holy War.

I personally see the Scarlet Spires as a Daimotic School at this point. They literally have no other purpose. Look what happened to the Vokalati when they turned on Saccarees. The Anagogic Schools are the pawns of Schoolman when they finally fight the Mangaecca and Erratic Quya.

Kellhus killed some Ciphrang in his travels to convince Iyokus that he'd free his School after. How else would Iyokus have earned the nickname of Blind Necromancer.

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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:05 pm »
Quote from: Duskweaver
It occurs to me that the Daimos, with its focus on actively engaging with the agencies of the Outside (rather than desperately trying to avoid their notice), is perhaps that aspect of the Anagogis closest to its Shamanistic roots...

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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:10 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Lol, I want to see more folkloric sorcery. Harnessing the agency of the trees (I wonder if this related to Agencies)...

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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:14 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
I can agree to that. Its kind of a mystery still, would be nice to see it filled out... and those trees are creepy as hell.

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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:18 pm »
Quote from: Duskweaver
Trees are certainly symbolic of something.

Onkis: hope, aspiration, (ambition?), (compassion?), the Singer in the Dark, the Prophetess who sees the movements of Men's souls... the Goddess who represents the Darkness That Comes Before?

Siol: the Mansion whose king's ambition set this whole sorry tale in motion (the Darkness of history that Comes Before the events of the books).

The Mop: a forest that could conceal nations in its Darkness (and the ruins of fallen civilizations).

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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:23 pm »
Quote from: Madness
I'm hazarding Dead Trees are directly tied to the No-God or Dunyain...

The Copper Tree of Siol and Onkis always led me for a loop though.

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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:28 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
And the inchoroi/consult looked to the mop to try and find the nation of the Dunyain, rather than reversing the path Kellhus took or checking up on Atraithau.

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« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:32 pm »
Quote from: Duskweaver
Quote from: Madness
The Copper Tree of Siol and Onkis always led me for a loop though.
I think what links them are the concept of ambition (IIRC, Onkis is said to tempt men to always try to grasp more than they can hold - as Cu'jara Cinmoi did in conquering Viri) and the way in which our present choices are constrained by history (i.e. they seem to spread out freely like the branches of a tree, but are in fact held within strict bounds by where the tree first rooted - by what has come before us).

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« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:37 pm »
Quote from: Duskweaver
There's also the idea that the World Tree actually creates the Ground by spreading out its roots through primordial Earth/Chaos, just as the laws, traditions, philosophies and ideologies of a group expand outward to create a society (under whose spreading boughs we seek shelter from the storm) once the group has defined the Centre/Root/Axle/Idea-Seed of their World.

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« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2013, 10:34:43 pm »
Quote from: Madness
I'll ante you up one from the man himself :). Apologies, if I've read LTG a couple times. Spoiler - though, its an "inapplicable" passage in the narrative. Though oddly it may be the most important passage for metaphor ;).

(click to show/hide)

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« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2013, 09:58:59 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
I have often wondered about the slow reveal of sorcery throughout the series. In TDTCB there was almost none worth mentioning, except that pittance of a mage that assailed Kellhus when he was first coming to the three seas. Each book after, sorcery is revealed more and more to us. Each book shows that it has more power, unimaginably so, than in the previous book. From our first encounter of it, to the epic fight with the dragon, sorcery has grown and changed.

The questions I have:
 
How long will this trend continue?
 Hopefully each successive book continues along this trend, transforming sorcery into the kind of world cracking thunder that I have been hoping for.

And why?
 Does Bakker do this on purpose, like with most things, revealing it slowly and with purposeful vagness. Or has this happened because Bakker himself was unsure of what he wanted it to be, its limitations, and its relevance?

What does anyone else think?

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« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 09:59:09 pm »
Quote from: themerchant
I think the "guy" Kellhus meets is more than a pittance of a mage.

I think Sorcery was pretty well established as bad ass as early as the library scene in TWP. It was then just a question of scale. In what ways would you say it changed? Akka always uses that concusion cant and the compass i think throughout the books.

i think you'll get your hope though with regards to world cracking thunder, I want to know what the things are that Kellhus has when he meets the non-men and also considering what he was doing when he rescued the army of the souths mage contingent he is capable of some crazy stuff.