The PreFAQ

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« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2013, 11:53:43 pm »
Quote from: bbaztek
Curethan has a point, but I'm left wondering why Aurax didn't just appear as a holy being to Werigda and co. in the Warrior-Prophet epilogue. Would have done a better job of coaxing an answer out of them than, well you know

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« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2013, 11:53:48 pm »
Quote from: Madness
D00d o.O?

It's the Consult... That was probably friday night for them :shock: .

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« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2013, 11:53:56 pm »
Quote from: Meyna
Quote from: Madness
+1 on Esmi's rape being a Glamour and the second time when Aurang visits her again before her Compulsion.

Thanks, Curethan.

Duskweaver, Glamours, for me, are the most difficult sorcery to understand. I can dig Cants (Offensive), Wards (Defensive). I can get sorcerous artifacts, glyphs (sorcerous script rendering objects sorcerous), and circles.

As I see it, glamors would fall under a category of magic that is referred to as "Illusion" magic. It's magic that manipulates the mind of the user's target, which can include the self. Rather than be overtly offensive or defensive, illusion magic can be either, depending on the effects of the manipulation. Looking physically different from the target's perspective is one way to do it, but I can imagine illusion spells that directly instill a sense of charm / fear / anger / whatever in the target.

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« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2013, 11:54:04 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Meyna
Quote from: Madness
+1 on Esmi's rape being a Glamour and the second time when Aurang visits her again before her Compulsion.

Thanks, Curethan.

Duskweaver, Glamours, for me, are the most difficult sorcery to understand. I can dig Cants (Offensive), Wards (Defensive). I can get sorcerous artifacts, glyphs (sorcerous script rendering objects sorcerous), and circles.

As I see it, glamors would fall under a category of magic that is referred to as "Illusion" magic. It's magic that manipulates the mind of the user's target, which can include the self. Rather than be overtly offensive or defensive, illusion magic can be either, depending on the effects of the manipulation. Looking physically different from the target's perspective is one way to do it, but I can imagine illusion spells that directly instill a sense of charm / fear / anger / whatever in the target.

Genjutsu :P one of these days someone will appreciate my references. For now I'll just entertain myself I guess  :geek:


But yeah, pretty much your standard Illusion magic.

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« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2013, 11:54:10 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
Oh, I get it Wilshire.  I read a certain manga.

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« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2013, 11:54:15 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Reading up on that, Wilshire: "Genjutsu can also be used to manipulate others, similar to brainwashing by feeding the victim illusive suggestions" (Narutopedia). This seems to be a more apt description for aspects of the Whelming, in my opinion - though, I understand that Genjutsu seems to encompass both Glamours and Whelming at this point of my analogy. Just drawing on descriptions for fodder.
 
+1 Meyna. I have to wonder then if Esmenet's pleasure is a result of the augmentation of Aurang's true form or of the Glamour he casts? I'd hazard this causes the most ambiguity in that scene and defining Glamours generally.

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« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2013, 11:54:20 pm »
Quote from: Meyna
Quote from: Madness
+1 Meyna. I have to wonder then if Esmenet's pleasure is a result of the augmentation of Aurang's true form or of the Glamour he casts? I'd hazard this causes the most ambiguity in that scene and defining Glamours generally.

It's a valid question: is the magic only changing how the target's mind views Aurang, or is Aurang changing himself in the physical world so that every perspective apprehends him differently? Do both forms of magic exist in Earwa? The latter would fall under Alteration magic, rather than Illusionmagic, if we want to use terms from, for instance, the Elder Scrolls.

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« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2013, 11:54:25 pm »
Quote from: Madness
For clarity, we do know that both types I mentioned exist.

In the one instance, Aurang's physical form has been repeatedly Grafted by the Tekne so that it (along with the other Inchoroi who survived such past Grafts) now release augmented pheromones and other biological mechanisms to make their prey compliant.

In the other, we have the fine explanations of Glamours in this thread. This is why I ask, Meyna, as it seems to have changed your thoughts on Glamours being illusory, specifically.

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« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2013, 11:54:31 pm »
Quote from: Meyna
Ah, of course. I sometimes fail to think of the Tekne when considering the metaphysics of Earwan magic.

+1 for lifting the illusions!

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« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2013, 11:54:36 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Maybe we should put this on the inital post of a real PreFAQ page if it ever exists:
"Answers are like opium: the more you imbibe, the more you need. Which is why the sober man finds solace in mystery."
Ikurei Conphas, Page 190 (USA Paperback edition)


How's about: Whats with the topos/topi/mengedda plains/Cil' Aujas?




Hell leaks into the world right? Hell = outside (more or less). So it really is just where the objective/subjective reality rules are bent, reality is more further influenced by desire (or mostly from what we have seen influenced by fear).

And since answers always lead to questions(see above):



Is the anarcane ground basically a topos that people arn't scared shitless by? Or is it more like a anti-topos, where human influence does not change but rather the gods can more fully manipulate their desires... or something...

If a bunch of people, in a topos, all thought really really hard about something, would it come true? Could they force an entirely new reality, at least within the confines of that topos? Could Kellhus effectively make his own "outside" exist within the boundaries of, say, the mengedda plains, by getting a shit ton of people to desire/think/want the same thing (Everyone thinking/believing Kellhus is a god/the god and thus Kell actually ascending to a position of absolute power within the sphere of the world)

How big is a topos? Can they only be created through suffereing and anguish. Can a topos be created by intense joy of millions, i.e a heavenly topos instead of the hellish topos we have already seen.


This all fits into the PreFAQ right? Normal questions everyday readers would be thinking of... right? RIGHT?! i'm normal *heavy breathing*

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« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2013, 11:54:42 pm »
Quote from: Madness
+1 on Quote, Wilshire.

Don't worry... I'm anticipating - eventually, I'll work out a nicely condensed and coherent FAQ from our communal brainstorming (I'm also referencing the quickly answered Author Q&A threads on Zombie Three Seas).

It's all gravy.

EDIT: Callan sent me a PM and I'd like to highlight a thought - perhaps, I should even post an Announcements thread.

To lurkers/new members/less immersed readers:

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO RESURRECT OLD THREADS!

That is all.

EDIT: Wilshire, I meant to post this earlier in response to your Topoi thoughts:

Quote from: Cu'jara Cinmoi, 2006
One of the ideas behind anarcane ground simply follows the notion that the boundaries between the World and the Outside are variable. Some, taking the distinction between wakefulness and dreams as their analogy, believe anarcane ground to be Holy ground - places where the God has, for whatever reason, focussed his attention - dreams lucidly - thus rendering the co-option of his Song by sorcery difficult if not impossible.

Wilshire

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« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2013, 02:36:46 pm »
Decided to bump this thread with a question that might not be 100% pertinent but oh well.

For some reason, it donned on me that the whole of Golgotterath is surely a topos. A really big and terrible one. If Mengedda went topoi after the NG died, I'm sure the whole area around the ship was similarly transformed when the NG exploded into existence. I am imagining that the coming of NG was not like Tony Stark screwing in the final bolt that finished his iron man suit, but more like a huge explosion (think atomic bomb) after a choir of aporetic schoolman finish their song.

Maybe simply having the majority of the human population standing in big topos worrying about the NG resurrecting... will itself be the cause of that resurrection. If a single man could grow an Eye in his own heart, a whole nation bent to the same thought could certainly cause it to happen. Yes?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Madness

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« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2013, 02:15:53 pm »
Decided to bump this thread with a question that might not be 100% pertinent but oh well.

For some reason, it donned on me that the whole of Golgotterath is surely a topos. A really big and terrible one.

+1 on the bump. A friend and I discussed about it a few times in the past weeks and it is really difficult to frame a TSA FAQ. Too many questions remain relevant throughout the series.

Golgotterath seems like it would be the worst topoi?
The Existential Scream
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Wilshire

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« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2013, 03:36:47 pm »
Assuming of course that there are different levels of topoi... Maybe it goes out like distance rather than magnatude. By that I mean, once something has achieved 'topoi' it is some kind of bridge to the outside. The bridge can get bigger, but a bridge doesn't become more-bridge-like. So maybe the depth of atrocity just makes the area larger. So because of all the suffereing, most or all of Agongorea is Golgotterath's topoi.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Madness

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« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2013, 02:02:33 pm »
You and I, among others, tried to hash out Topoi in The Ground, the Void and the Outside., if thou is remembering?
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer