Ciphrang Throughout History

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Triskele

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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2014, 05:54:30 pm »
I do have this hunch that the Captain still has some role to play which is a strange thing to say given that he's dead. 

Wilshire

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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2014, 02:23:23 pm »
I do have this hunch that the Captain still has some role to play which is a strange thing to say given that he's dead. 
If anything, I'm certain he will still be "talking" to Sarl, if he is seen again.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Aural

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« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2015, 05:44:15 pm »
Do Ciphrang get killed by Chorae?

Wilshire

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« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2015, 06:17:31 pm »
I think so. Don't they get salted before the siege of Shimeh?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Aural

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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2015, 06:18:33 pm »
Ok, thanks. Itís been some time that I didnít remember.

Francis Buck

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« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2015, 10:26:28 pm »
I do have this hunch that the Captain still has some role to play which is a strange thing to say given that he's dead. 

Same. I really don't think his "arc" is done, even though he may not actually be directly active in the story. The fact that this whole trilogy basically started with his character's intro also inclines me to believe there's more to the Captain's arc.

I go back and forth on him being a Ciphrang. I lean towards that not being the case, only because Bakker alludes to it so heavily that it feels like it must be a red-herring.

I have a crackpot that the Captain really isn't anything other than a man who had a "near-death experience". At some point he died and his soul witnessed true Hell, but he "bounced back" (to quote Sarl), either because he was somehow resuscitated or maybe through magical means via Kellhus and/or Iyokus.

Regardless, having witnessed Hell, Kosoter was of course never the same man again. It was basically like looking into the Inverse Fire. He realized that no Worldly pain or horror could ever even come close to matching genuine Damnation, and so upon returning from death he was utterly changed. The atrocities he saw and committed became nothing to him, just like the Consult members that saw Damnation. Ironsoul seems a fitting name for the man in this case. This scenario also explains his comment in the lava-filled depths of Cil-Aujas when they all think they're in Hell, but Kosoter says that it isn't and he knows because he'd already seen Hell. In addition, this explains his absolute, utter conviction to Kellhus. He knows Damnation is real in a way that few do, and for whatever reason he believes that Kellhus is his path to Salvation.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 05:22:54 pm by Francis Buck »

The Sharmat

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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2015, 06:08:48 am »
IIRC some of Akka's reflections on the Wight-of-the-Mountain after Cil-Aujas reveal that it's theoretically possible for a mortal soul to become a Ciphrang after being in the Outside long enough, if it's a very powerful one.

geoint

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« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2015, 04:02:56 pm »
I do have this hunch that the Captain still has some role to play which is a strange thing to say given that he's dead. 

Same. I really don't think his "arc" is done, even though he may not actually be directly active in the story. The fact that this whole trilogy basically started with his character's intro also inclines me to believe there's more to the Captain's arc.

I go back and forth on him being a Ciphrang. I lean towards that not being the case, only because Bakker alludes to it so heavily that it feels like it must be a red-herring.

I have a crackpot that the Captain really isn't anything other than a man who had a "near-death experience". At some point he died and his soul witnessed true Hell, but he "bounced back" (to quote Sarl), either because he was somehow resuscitated or maybe through magical means via Kellhus and/or Iyokus.

Regardless, having witnessed Hell, Kosoter was of course never the same man again. It was basically like looking into the Inverse Fire. He realized that no Worldly pain or horror could ever even come close to matching genuine Damnation, and so upon returning from death he was utterly changed. The atrocities he saw and committed became nothing to him, just like the Consult members that saw Damnation. Ironsoul seems a fitting name for the man in this case. This scenario also explains his comment in the lava-filled depths of Cil-Aujas when they all think they're in Hell, but says that it isn't and he knows because he'd already seen Hell. In addition, this explains his absolute, utter conviction to Kellhus. He knows Damnation is real in a way that few do, and for whatever reason he believes that Kellhus is his path to Salvation.

Good post!

MalapertGlim

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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2015, 02:49:44 pm »
@ Ejjannelsouda - i'm still not sure that a salted ciphrang is dead rather than just banished back to the deep

@ Francis Buck

"Regardless, having witnessed Hell, Kosoter was of course never the same man again. It was basically like looking into the Inverse Fire. He realized that no Worldly pain or horror could ever even come close to matching genuine Damnation, and so upon returning from death he was utterly changed. The atrocities he saw and committed became nothing to him, just like the Consult members that saw Damnation. Ironsoul seems a fitting name for the man in this case. This scenario also explains his comment in the lava-filled depths of Cil-Aujas when they all think they're in Hell, but says that it isn't and he knows because he'd already seen Hell. In addition, this explains his absolute, utter conviction to Kellhus. He knows Damnation is real in a way that few do, and for whatever reason he believes that Kellhus is his path to Salvation."

That's awesome!  Could it be that the Captain will eventually give us proof about the ultimate veracity of Kellhus' claims?  If the head speaks from hell, Kellhus is a liar, promising salvation to the damned.  If the head speaks from heaven, Kellhus controls the fates of the Zaudunyani in the afterlife.

so in my head, i'm picturing Akka and Mimara deep in the deepest parts of the Thousand Thousand Halls where they witness the anchor of the Dunyain project on to have Revelation creep in behind them as Sarl appears having followed them all the way down and the grating hate animates the Kosoter's mouth once again.

Wic

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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2015, 06:15:54 pm »
Quote
Ironsoul seems a fitting name for the man in this case. This scenario also explains his comment in the lava-filled depths of Cil-Aujas when they all think they're in Hell, but says that it isn't and he knows because he'd already seen Hell.
Crackpot: If a mortal swallowed a chorae, would they be able to walk into the Outside without destroying the portal?

Ironsoul indeed.

MalapertGlim

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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2015, 06:56:58 pm »
Quote
Ironsoul seems a fitting name for the man in this case. This scenario also explains his comment in the lava-filled depths of Cil-Aujas when they all think they're in Hell, but says that it isn't and he knows because he'd already seen Hell.
Crackpot: If a mortal swallowed a chorae, would they be able to walk into the Outside without destroying the portal?

Ironsoul indeed.

swallowing a chorae--why does no one do this????  there's got to be some big gullet types who wouldn't choke on it and could fight 2 handed until it passed

"a tear of god passing through the butt of man"

Wilshire

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« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2015, 03:25:25 am »
FB that reminds me of that movie Constantine with Keanu Reeves
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MalapertGlim

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« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2015, 08:04:03 pm »
just wondering--is it possible that a White Luck Warrior is equal to a Ciphrang possessed individual?