Akka's "Power Level"?

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SilentRoamer

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« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2014, 07:52:09 pm »
Cleric told her they only burn the greatest and he was reverant over the Qirri to an extent. I think its implied in the textual evidence and in Mimaras belief but it is by no means explicit.

Somnambulist

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« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2014, 09:54:01 pm »
Of course, that's the great caveat of all Bakker's TSA:  'truth' is relative to the character.  We, as readers, can be 'told' the 'truth' from a character's perspective, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the TRUTH.  So, maybe a better question would have been 'Whose ashes are they thought to be?'  As far as we know, they're Cu-jara-Cinmoi's, but as has been illustrated time and again, we, as readers, don't know shit.
No whistling on the slog!

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2014, 11:54:48 pm »
I think the Qirri was Cujara so I will except that as my truth. Whoever it ultimately was it definetely upped Akkas power level.

As the title says Akkas power level, where does everyone think Akka stands now in terms of individuals? Maybe needs a new thread or one already exists with some kind of power level ranking? Kind of ties in with http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1328.0

 

Crtha

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« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2014, 12:36:58 am »
CC had to show up in some form.  He's Bakker's alt account in Earwa.  :p

Always felt that Akka was very powerful.  The fact that the Quorum kept him in the field suggests he was effective as a spy/diplomat as well as the fact that Simas and co. viewed him as a political threat.

His victories against multiple anagogics at the library, a powerful Cpihrang and Wutteat show he is tactically clever and extremely formidible. 
Intellectually, he is perceptive and flexible (it's his intuition and blame-shifting habits that let him down mostly).

I think he would give Sacarees a good fight, and is also probably capable of the meta-gnosis (more so after using quirri - but I don't think he will get the opportunity to learn it).
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2014, 12:41:51 pm »
I think Akka would demolish Sacarees now he has Qirri-Boost!

Wonder how Meppa compares - I would have to say Meppa would be stronger based on the capabilities of the Cish Primaries and how he is a "torrent" of water.

MG

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« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2014, 02:05:25 am »
@larrytheimp - I wanted to second what you said:

Quote
Another thing that Achamian has going for him is just simple experience; the mf has had so many opportunities now to just drop some gnosis on fools and sranc.

Perhaps a god or Seswatha has been exposing Akka to just the right amount of experience all along for some kind of final act

@SilentRoamer - Also wanted to second what you said:
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Personally I think since the Slog of Slogs Akkas power is really developing. Who knows what effect eating Qirri from a Nonman Super-Quya will do?

Akka, honed by the years, PLUS qirri--HIS TIME IS COMING!  I wonder if there is a ceiling on qirri use, as in, can he take so much that he would rival a meta-gnostic?

Crackpot: somehow, someway some of the other awesomes get ahold of qirri--Meppa + Qirri?  Kellhus + Qirri?  Kellhus kills Mekeritrig or Nin'janjin at Dagliash and consumes all of their ashes right before fighting the Cheater of the Gods!

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2014, 12:08:01 pm »
I think Akka would demolish any world born human sorcerers at this point - except Meppa as he is a bit of an unknown. I also think that would include any meta-gnostic trained human sorcerers such as Saccarees. I think even the half Dunyain are simply too intellectually efficient for Akka to get close. Out of the World Born though - Akka seems boss. :)

Garet Jax

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« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2014, 06:34:21 pm »
I'm starting to believe that Akka has started to use something along the lines of the "Meta-Gnosis" in some way without knowing it.  It is never really supported by text, but I think his use of CC's Qirri and now Nil'Giccas, has "sharpened his intellect" enough to be able to cross the boundary...  If he keeps snorting that damn Qirri, he might just start spouting off some Auji-Gilcunni.


On a more topical note, aside from Kellhus, I now put Akka above Nonmen Quya, remaining Mangaecca, Inchoroi, Meppa or any other remaining Cishaurim, Saccarees, and Serwe etc... as the second most powerful practitioner of sorcery on Earwa.


On a side note: I don't think being Dunyain is a prerequisite for using the Meta-Gnosis




SilentRoamer

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« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2014, 08:33:06 pm »
Garet I agree with you in that I dont think being Dunyain is a pre-requisite for knowledge of the Meta-Gnosis I just think it would be an advantage - sharper intellects making it easier for the Dunyain but not impossible for the exceptionally gifted World-Born.

I agree with you that Akka is above remaining Nonmen Quya, based on what we have seen.

I feel like Meppa is an unknown - but we know he has a "torrent" of water and from my reading the SS severely underestimated the force that the Cish could bring to bear. If I remember rightly the Primaries were basically wrecking the Anagogic Schools before Kellhus demolished them with his Cant of Transposing and Enshoiya - this was a complete surprise for them and we really did not see them react due to the speed and prowess of Kellhus.

I agree with you to some extent regarding the Mangeacca except that we know Shae has an awesome intellect - I mean the guy brought down the Barricades which was no mean feat. I know this was not an out and out test of power but we know intellect is power and I don't think Shae would be a pushover.

I think the Inchies might surprise us with their level of power - in TWP when Kellhus confronts compulsed Esmi he recognises an immense Mark and reflects on how the huge shout of the Inchies sorcery was reduced over the distance. I just have a feeling one of the Inchie brothers is going to be a Meta-Gnosis wrecking ball. (BTW I fucking love that scene where Kellhus tumbles into the Inchie soul!)

Serwa outranks Saccarees IMO and I think Akka could take both of these.

Akka is getting to be like a BOSS!

Zadok

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« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2014, 01:10:02 am »
This is an interesting discussion, it's not really clear to me how "power" is determined though.  Would a Kellhus Gnostic Cant be inherently stronger than an Akka Gnostic Cant because of his intelligence and purity of meaning, or would his advantage be in being able to cast them effortlessly and continuously while Akka would tire first?  Also, is it possible to create new utterals and inutterals or is Kellhus mixing and matching ones that are already used when he does his Meta-Gnostic Cants?

Garet Jax

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« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2014, 01:07:32 pm »
This is an interesting discussion, it's not really clear to me how "power" is determined though.  Would a Kellhus Gnostic Cant be inherently stronger than an Akka Gnostic Cant because of his intelligence and purity of meaning, or would his advantage be in being able to cast them effortlessly and continuously while Akka would tire first?  Also, is it possible to create new utterals and inutterals or is Kellhus mixing and matching ones that are already used when he does his Meta-Gnostic Cants?

I think both would be to his advantage.

The purity of meaning in Gnostic Sorcery is achieved by using the utteral (spoken) and inutteral (thought) together.  I think Kellhus could hold a more "pure" inutteral in his head than Akka could resulting in a stronger Cant.  To your second point, I also think that Kellhus could cast them more "effortlessly and continuously" than ol' Akka could, though I am not sure it would be Akka getting tired that would give Kellhus the advantage.


I am not sure either way if you can create new utteral and inutterals, but I don't see why not.  But, iirc, it is the use of the second inutteral that enables the use of the Meta Gnosis.  I think the Cant of Transposing was an expansion on the Cant of Far Calling or something like that. 

I don't have my books on me, but in TTT there are some really good descriptions on this very topic about halfway through the book.




« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 01:31:47 pm by Garet Jax »

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2014, 01:54:07 pm »
The second inutteral changes or amplifies the meaning of the first inutteral as Garet posits correctly above. The Cant of Transposing is the Cant of Calling with an additional innuteral.

I think at this point Kellhus is beyond traditional utterals/inutterals. I would actually not be surprised if Kellhus created a "pure" language for his Gnostic sorcery - he has had 20 years to do this, this giving him purity of meaning and recitation far beyond all regular sorcery.

Didn't it intimate in the text that Gnostic utterals were more powerful than Anagogic due to being closer to the original Cunoroi? (Cuniform?)

Do you think Kellhus has the Psukhe now as well or is this the wild card?



Zadok

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« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2014, 02:31:43 pm »
Maybe I'm looking at it too much in video game terms, I'm just curious how much native intelligence plays a role in the power of the cant.  For example would Kellhus using Anagogic sorcery be able to rank Gnostic sorcerers or is the gulf in power too great?  Or how Meta-Anagogic Cants would stack up against the regular Gnosis.

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2014, 03:33:38 pm »
Anagogic is basically a precursor to Gnostic - or that is how I understand it. The right semantic leaps in Anagogic thinking leads to the Gnosis. Like a musket and a rifle.

The other sorceries are independent of each other but the Anagogic/Gnostic sorceries are the same subset. IMO.

MG

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« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2014, 09:44:40 pm »
It's possible that qirri is a wild card that Kellhus hasn't accounted for.  While its hard to think of anything he's left out, the idea of huffing nonmen must be pretty scarcely know, perhaps even a secret too the nonmen culture.  For all we know, only 2 people have ever been burned up and snorted.  Possibly qirri only works with humans snorting nonmen.  But I am curious what happens when nonmen snort nonmen, nonmen snort humans, and humans snort humans (since Earwa is so damn different than our own world).

Akka, qirri-mad and Seswatha possessed along with sidekick Judging Eye Woman, might be the happy chance that saves/destroys the world.