Who destroyed the [spoiler] monastery?

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« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2013, 08:31:42 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
Khellus killed Mek's elju.  Whatever he was doing, can't see that it got finished.

We'll have a better idea as soon as Akka gets to the ruins.
Dragon sign is hard to miss (the 3 scratches from Sauglish) and would indicate the Consult.

Sorcery should also be readily apparent and would probably indicate Kellhus did it.
Reasoning is that the Consult would be very cautious about a frontal assault or risking their magic users after their experiences with Moe and Kell. 
A simple assault with Sranc and Bashrag would have likely failed at first and I don't see them as that great at sustained seigecraft.

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« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2013, 08:31:47 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Just keep sending in more zerglings and eventually the bunker full of firebats protecting the siege tanks will break and you can get in. It just costs the lives of innumerable lings but whatever, they are cheap and easy to replace.

(anyone else see the seas of sranc like zerglings? maybe i've played too much starcraft)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 08:03:17 pm by Wilshire »

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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2013, 08:31:52 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Quote from: Camlost
Although the Nonmen must have been involved or at least known of Ishual given the speculated tunnel between it and Ishterbinth. But if that proves untrue then forget what I just said.

Camlost, I've debated this with Dean more often than you can imagine. He's surprisingly well read - if only obsessively trying to find Bakker's continuity errors... LMAO!

That being said, I have to hand it to them, except Kellhus' comparison of the Nonmen Mansion beneath Kyudea there is no textual evidence for the Thousand Thousand Halls being an extension of a Mansion or that Ishual was built on one - in fact, the evidence - I think he's got three pieces, if I recall correctly - points towards the Dunyain building it themselves for training purposes... though clearly, lying to initiates is Dunyain Teaching 101.

Quote from: Meyna
+1. Why have Mek up there unless he's up to some evil Consulty stuff?

+3, I think, evil Consulty stuff! Because that was always the plan :D.

Clearly, Mekeritrig is up to something - I've often wondered if Ishterebinth would hazard another returned traitor from the Inchoroi but it's possible Cet'ingira went to sway the Nonmen to the Consult? To reveal Nil'giccas' lie/omission, finally?

Quote from: Wilshire
Not as poetic as the dragon that Akka awoke destroying is final goal (does that fall under world conspires? I still dont get that), but and interesting idea.

+1 Wutteat - as Curethan said, it'll be super obvious, if that's the case.

The World Conspires, to me, Wilshire - though, I'm not sure others share my hesitancy - is simply Fate Conspires. Mostly, the evidence aside the rationalizing, is this: "The world has its own ways, sockets so deep that not even the Gods can dislodge them. No urn is so cracked as Fate. - ASANSIUS, THE LIMPING PILGRIM" (WLW, p184)

I believe that is our only epigram by Asansius in the series, thus far, an anomaly like Ganus the Blind. I think Callan started the thread asserting that whenever something comes across as narrative conceit ("that would only happen in a book, or that's an irregular plot-jump"), we can blame it on Fate conspiring, playing her own mad game. This epigram also suggests to me that Fate is something akin to Ajokli.

Quote from: Curethan
We'll have a better idea as soon as Akka gets to the ruins.

Where'd you find your speculative zen ;)? TELL ME WHAT YOU SEE!

Quote from: Curethan
A simple assault with Sranc and Bashrag would have likely failed at first and I don't see them as that great at sustained seigecraft.

If I was a betting man, I'd guess that we'll finally get some Gnosis vs. Gnosis at Dagliash, among other tasty combinations. However, there was a time when I wondered if the Consult would simply contest Dagliash with Weapon Races...

EDIT: Wilshire, I like the analogy but all I can imagine Sranc as now is that stupid Zombie ladder from the World War Z trailer. Btw, Brad Pitt, I don't care about Max Brooks' nameless UN character's origin story! I care about the French fighting in the Catacombs, the Oriental wood walkers, and single shot rifles being the best way to kill SLOW WALKING zombies... Fucking Hollywood.[/quote]

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« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2013, 08:31:58 pm »
Quote from: coobek
Quote from: Wilshire
Just keep sending in more zerglings and eventually the bunker full of firebats protecting the siege tanks will break and you can get in. It just costs the lives of innumerable lings but whatever, they are cheap and easy to replace.

(anyone else see the seas of sranc like zerglings? maybe i've played too much starcraft)

Spot on oh Brother!

Bunkers and tanks were cool, nothing moves past them if you had Orion fleet hovering. Unless of course there was a Ghost with nuke coming. ANd then the russian Orion captn was pretty cool.

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« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2013, 08:32:10 pm »
Quote from: Madness
You play SC2 at all, coobek?

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« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2013, 08:32:18 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
Zerging sranc seem unlikely to strike the citadel's bulwarks to their foundations.  Or however it is described.
Plus you have to factor in that the Dunyain can take instant tech advances as needed.  (I don't SC - sorry if that doesn't mesh with the anology).

Other option is that the Dunyain might just top themselves or hightail it when they see that contamination is inevitable.  Again, no massive destruction results.
I think it kinda had to be a shock and awe offensive with a LOT of raw power.  Ergo; dragons, daimotic or meta-gnostic sorcery.

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« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2013, 08:32:23 pm »
Quote from: coobek
Quote from: Madness
You play SC2 at all, coobek?

Nope. Just SC1. Didn't play much after my first child was born at all. No time for that.

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« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2013, 08:32:28 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Lol, there are worse reasons to stop playing video games ;). Congrats on parenthood many, or not so many, seasons ago.

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« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2013, 08:32:33 pm »
Quote from: coobek
4 seasons. An now double jeopardy for 1 season.

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« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2013, 08:32:38 pm »
Quote from: Madness
LOL! Congrats a second time then.

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« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2013, 08:32:44 pm »
Quote from: Camlost
Quote
Camlost, I've debated this with Dean more often than you can imagine. He's surprisingly well read - if only obsessively trying to find Bakker's continuity errors... LMAO!
Are we talking Dean from creative writing class?

Madness you've mention on a number of occasions that you feel Dagliash will be analogous to Helm's Deep much like Cil'Aujas was to the Mines of Moria. How close do you think Bakker will adhere to that model? Do you think we'll see Dagliash on the brink of capture and our resident Wizard showing up in the nick of time with an army of Nonmen at his back? It feels somewhat likely to me, at the very least it makes for a convenient rally location for joining the Ordeal.

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« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2013, 08:32:51 pm »
Quote from: Madness
One and the same.

I remember reading Cil'Aujas and being physically jarred by the reading experience. The ideas expressed were so Tolkien to me, despite the fact that Cil'Aujas is two chapters and Moria is a couple pages. Then I realized that this is something of Bakker's jab and the point. He's playing our connotations - he just happens to have such wicked awesome prose ;).

I almost hazard that the Ordeal will take Daglish with nigh a loss.

Then... Caraskand, Consult-style :twisted:...

While Achamian spends most of the book diffusing whatever is going on at Ishterebinth so that the Quya Chariots may ride to the aid of the Great Ordeal. Seriously... my head may explode.

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« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2013, 08:33:29 pm »
Quote from: Camlost
Ièm glad he made it through Darkness. It can be a  bit much for some, enough to put them off TSA.

I personally savour the Illiadic style of his battle scenes. One of the things I disliked about the Malazan series is that you only ever saw a battle from a squadès point of view..

This is getting a little away from the topic at hand though, so... How populated is the Ancient North these daysÉ I guess Ièm wondering why the Consult wouldnèt have taken control of any ground that might be remotely advantageous to Kellhus and the Ordeal. Sure they canèt contest them everywhere but certainly they have some extra Sranc they could throw at them at the whole of the way, widdle down and demoralize the Ordeal before they are even confronted with a real battle, something to challenge the conviction that Kellhus has installed in them

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« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2013, 08:33:34 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
The ancient north seems pretty sparsely populated except by sranc.  But...
I'm curious how tribes like Aengleas' managed to survive (at least until the end of TWP)...

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« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2013, 08:33:40 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Quote from: Camlost
I personally savour the Illiadic style of his battle scenes.
+2 :D. And roam free topic-wise, Camlost, we can always move posts to new threads. Its organic.

+1 Curethan.