[Wilshire]

There is definitely something about being blind in Earwa.

Iyokus would know then that Yatwer protects Sorweel.

+1 for blindness. Maybe Kellhus has more than 1 new school? A school of the blind.... The last cisharium indeed....

Why would he know that?

[locke]

considering the constant refrain of "soul's eye" and the especially evocative image of the ciphrang yanking the soul out of a cishaurim via the energy streaming from their 'third eye' perhaps blinding your world born eyes allows your soul's eye to see.

When the no god asked, none answered because all were blind (they saw only with their world born eyes) none in the world had their soul's eye open, no one saw anything, and thus he remained unanswered.

[Cüréthañ]

Or the ability to perceive the Onta is simply not connected to the eyeballs.

[Wilshire]

considering the constant refrain of "soul's eye" and the especially evocative image of the ciphrang yanking the soul out of a cishaurim via the energy streaming from their 'third eye' perhaps blinding your world born eyes allows your soul's eye to see.

When the no god asked, none answered because all were blind (they saw only with their world born eyes) none in the world had their soul's eye open, no one saw anything, and thus he remained unanswered.

Awesome. Wonder what would have happened if someone could "see"? Thats a good idea as long as the Cish started after the First Apocalypse.

Also, I wonder if Mog was looking for the Judging Eye? On that note, how would it look under that gaze?
... And speaking of TJE, what would happen is Mimara was blinded?

[Madness]

Why would he know that?

Meppa recognized Psatma despite her mortal form and seems to speak directly to Yatwer as if she was present, when Fanayal takes Iothiah.

Curethan, I'm more thinking along the lines of Cishaurim, Ganus the Blind, and:

A blind beggar clasped him about the knees, blubbering.

"You must give! Give!"

It seems this fellow recognizes the Warrior walking through Momemn as Yatwer's Avatar.

[Wilshire]

Maybe ALL the blind who perceive the Onta see in the so-called "Third Site"? In which case, your blind beggar could have been a schoolman. The schools probably never explored what blindness does to their ability to "see" the Onta, which makes sense as to why Elazarus freaks out so much when Iyokus returns without eyes.

The words Iyokus, do you remember the words?
Yes
Then you are still whole
(or something like that. The scene when Iyokus returns blinded, I don't have my books currently)

It occurs to me that this is the wrong question with the correct answer. He should have asked if he could still see the onta. We know that sorcery has very little to the words.

[Cüréthañ]

Blind or not the Onta is still there.  For the Few, their awareness of metaphysical topology is strong enough to impinge on their mundane perceptions, so they are aware of it despite the immeadiacy of regular sight.  If I recall correctly, Xinnemus glimpses something of the Cish when he is escaping with Akka, yes?

Sight dominates our perceptions and it is very easy to be deceived by visual illusion, even when we know better.

Inclined to agree with Wilshire here.  Further, the third sight may be accessible to all to some extent.  This could explain how the Cish are initially drawn from a single tribe.

Madness, I address how I believe Meppa sees the ontological reality of Psatma in the 'Sorcery' thread.  The beggar need not be of the few, just slightly more sensitive to metaphysical reality because his perceptions are  not cluttered by sight.  I can easily see the white-luck appearing as something very intense to a Cish or Mimara.  Noisy, if you will.   Even that beggar, with no other abilities beyond the mundane is shocked to suddenly 'see' this walking intersection of metaphysical influence.

We don't know if Ganus was human, nonman or inchi.  I have a sneaky suspicion he was a pre-apocalyptic Inchi.  But the ability to 'see' prophecy seems very likely to tie into some sensitivity like that of TJE. 

Imagine if Mimara was blinded and learned to 'see' solely via the Onta and the JE... crazy!

[Wilshire]

Imagine if Mimara was blinded and learned to 'see' solely via the Onta and the JE... crazy!

Haha yes! Thats what I was getting at.

Tertiary tangent not about Iyokus... ok I'm moving this to the sorcerery thread.

[Madness]

Blind or not the Onta is still there.  For the Few, their awareness of metaphysical topology is strong enough to impinge on their mundane perceptions, so they are aware of it despite the immeadiacy of regular sight.  If I recall correctly, Xinnemus glimpses something of the Cish when he is escaping with Akka, yes?

Because he is seeing like the Cishaurim do, specifically, not as the Few do, generally.

Madness, I address how I believe Meppa sees the ontological reality of Psatma in the 'Sorcery' thread.  The beggar need not be of the few, just slightly more sensitive to metaphysical reality because his perceptions are  not cluttered by sight.  I can easily see the white-luck appearing as something very intense to a Cish or Mimara.  Noisy, if you will.   Even that beggar, with no other abilities beyond the mundane is shocked to suddenly 'see' this walking intersection of metaphysical influence.

I lack evidence but I do think that the Sight of the Few, the Third Sight of the Cishaurim, and Mimara's Judging Eye are three distinct items.

[Dûnyain novice]

I lack evidence but I do think that the Sight of the Few, the Third Sight of the Cishaurim, and Mimara's Judging Eye are three distinct items.

Same here!

[Cüréthañ]

Perhaps we could summarize the two alternatives thusly?

A) The modes of sight are different perspectives on the same metaphysical spectrum.

B) The modes of sight are looking at three different metaphysical dimensions.

[Francis Buck]

Perhaps we could summarize the two alternatives thusly?

A) The modes of sight are different perspectives on the same metaphysical spectrum.

B) The modes of sight are looking at three different metaphysical dimensions.

I'd agree with this.

I'd also like to add that I think the metaphysical effects of blindness are somehow very importantly linked with the "circuit of Watcher and Watched", which I also believe is linked to the nature of reality as it is in Earwa and the Outside (perhaps the superior "watcher" forms the greater reality, or something of that nature -- dunno, ties into my ideas of Earwa being a sort of noospheric Nexus, with the Hundred and damnation being anthropomorphic representations of primitive human morality, further reinforced by a relatively unanimous religion, the Kiunnat).

[Madness]

Not sure how I missed this, Curethan. Though, I was writing an assignment on November 17th .

If a) then I would need to understand how sorcery fits on that spectrum (I can easily see the Judging Eye and the Third Sight as being two sides of the same coin or some such).

If b) then I would rephrase in basically the same fashion: two different metaphysical dimensions.

But then I'm back to a).

...

[Triskele]

Curethan - Yes, when Xinemas and Akka are returning to the Holy War from Iothiah, Xinemas "sees the Cishaurim seeing" and tells Akka about it.  Akka says something like "you did see, in a way" and then describes the Cishaurim as the masters of the interval between sight and blindness.  He also says that it's a mistake for men to assume that nothing lies between these two extremes (EAMD, lol). 

However, this scene strongly suggests that Akka also sees them seeing, and Akka is not blind.  He keeps worrying that they'll spot them and kill them, but it keeps not happening.  It seems possible that the Cishaurim do see them but allow them to pass. 

[Francis Buck]

I always forget about that damn shadow-walking scene. It always seemed very strange, almost out-of-place or something.