The Heron Spear

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« on: May 28, 2013, 04:55:24 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
So I realized that Seswatha always has a non-sorcerer someone along to carry the Heron Spear.  Significant?

Then we have Akka going to Ishual (via Sauglish) with Mim - maybe Kellhus is really sending him looking for it?
Alternately, it might be in Ishterberinth and we have Serwa and Moenghus II on their way there.

That's two expeditions who would know what it looked like and seem equiped to retrieve it anyway...

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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2013, 04:55:31 pm »
Quote from: Borric
Quote from: Curethan
So I realized that Seswatha always has a non-sorcerer someone along to carry the Heron Spear.  Significant?
 


I think you have hit on something there Curethan.
I always found it most odd that he had Anaxophus the V use the spear against the No God when he was there himself.

One thing i'd differ on though, I feel its Seswatha sending Akka after the spear, for evidence of that I point to his latest dream outside Ishual.
Kel i suspect is manipulating Akka in the direction of Ishterberinth.

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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2013, 04:55:39 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
Maybe.  Kellhus is quite capable of messing with dreams too though.  And he 'talked' to Akka's inner Seswatha back in TTT.  I don't trust Akka's Ses dreams that are described after that. 
Or are you talking about the Nau Cayuti dream?

Unlikely the heron spear is in either place really anyway... unless the one that was lost with Cenia's fall was a fake.
Can't trust Seswatha either, tricksy bastard.  ;)

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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2013, 04:55:56 pm »
Quote from: Madness
We had theorized awhile ago that for ambiguity, Achamian and Mimara were going to find nothing but the Heron Spear in the Thousand Thousand Halls.

Thoughts a-stream, why do the Scylvendi only aid the Consult when Lokung (No-God) is alive? Is the No-God even Lokung's original form - was he previously a Dead God, who the Consult leveraged to create the No-God? Would the Scylvendi return the Heron Spear to the Consult so long after the No-God's fall?

Perhaps, the Heron Spear feeds off bioforce for ammo - sorcerers are much to valuable to be flesh fodder? Pretty common space trope. Any plausible Nerdanel must, after all, cover why the Inchoroi exhausted their weapons of light.

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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 04:57:05 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Probably the weapons exhausted because of shitty batteries, and all the outlets in the Ark where destroyed in the crash.

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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 04:57:26 pm »
Quote from: Borric
Quote from: Curethan
Maybe.  Kellhus is quite capable of messing with dreams too though.  And he 'talked' to Akka's inner Seswatha back in TTT.  I don't trust Akka's Ses dreams that are described after that. 
Or are you talking about the Nau Cayuti dream?

Unlikely the heron spear is in either place really anyway... unless the one that was lost with Cenia's fall was a fake.
Can't trust Seswatha either, tricksy bastard.  ;)

Yup, the Nau Cayuti dream, where he’s being interrogated about the spears location. 
I’ve got it in my head that it’s in Ishual, i don’t think Seswatha would have left it in some museum for the Consult agents

I do trust Seswartha though. I know, call me naive, he did after all hand over the Gnosis in short order.
But I can’t bring myself to see him as a simple tool for Kel, he may have made some deal regarding the gnosis, but i feel the timing of his dreams are still his own.

About the “weapons of light” not being used by Seswatha, on second thoughts that really is an obvious action for them to take.
i.e imbue the weapons with Chorae, so they can not be destroyed by sorcery. (as this was before they had sorcery grafted into their kin)
which will mean Mimara gets to play the “Heavy” .

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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 04:57:57 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Quote from: Madness
Thoughts a-stream, why do the Scylvendi only aid the Consult when Lokung (No-God) is alive? Is the No-God even Lokung's original form - was he previously a Dead God, who the Consult leveraged to create the No-God?
Might be off topic, might be on, but given Earwa metaphysics, how did that god die to begin with?

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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 04:58:05 pm »
Quote from: Madness
That is what I'm asking, Callan.

I always figured that the No-God was Lokung. The Scylvendi of the First Apocalypse made an original pact of belief with a "living" deity - or so they thought.

However, I wondered above whether or not, Lokung might have been of the Hundred himself and previously died - Perhaps, the Consult coopted the Scylvendi lore of a Dead-God and claimed to "resurrect" Lokung, offering the No-God in his stead. Or really resurrected Lokung and he is the No-God...

Thoughts.

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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2013, 04:58:13 pm »
Quote from: Duskweaver
"Hey, Horse-humpers. Your god died. Sorry. By the way, have a look in this shiny Inverse Fire thingy. Oh, looks like you're all damned now you have no god to intercede for you in the Outside! That sucks, right? But don't fret. We friendly Consult types have a cunning plan..."

I wonder if the original Lokung was murdered by his four-horned brother...

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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2013, 04:58:27 pm »
Quote from: Madness
+1...

Though, isn't it simpler to concur that the "people of the Three Seas" who "killed their [Scylvendi] god" were Anaxophus & Seswatha killing the No-God?

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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2013, 04:58:38 pm »
Quote from: Duskweaver
Quote from: Madness
Though, isn't it simpler
Of course, but when did we start valuing simplicity? ;)

[size=85]William of Ockham? Never met the guy.[/size]

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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2013, 04:58:49 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
So maybe he made a deal for the world to be closed, except for him, and he'd ruffle the Scylvendi and consults hair and call them a scallawag when they died, rather than eternal torment.

Then the other gods caught him trying to set up a monopoly?

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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2013, 04:59:01 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Both excess and simplicity can be speculative tools ;).

+1 on William. Decent chap.

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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2013, 04:59:09 pm »
Quote from: Madness
"'The first scripture of Men,' he said to the rain. "There was a time, before the birth of Lokung, when even the People were bound by the Tusk.'
'Your God was born?'
'Yes. A long time ago. It was our God who laid waste to the northern lands and gave them to the Sranc'" (TDTCB, p398).

Just thought I'd add this in here.