Mimara

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« on: June 01, 2013, 07:17:39 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Not quite sure if this has already been discussed here, I know I've seen somthing similar on other forums but I couldn't find it here. What is the significance of the way that Mimara's PoV is written? Has there been a conclusion as to why its written in a present tense, while the rest of the PoV's are written as if being recalled?

Also, can anyone point me to anywhere else where this kind of present tense is used throughout the series? I was pretty sure Yatwer's PoV (it was her right?) in the WLW was like this but I can't be sure.

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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2013, 07:17:48 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Well, the examples you cite suggest that Mimara's POV reflects that of the White-Luck Warrior and Yatwer.

Mimara actually has very few POV's over the course of TAE in comparison to Achamian, Sorweel, or Esmenet. At times, I thought Bakker simply chose the first person view to facilitate the tension and action during such sequences, which works well, but I'd say that he's holding on to some cards still concerning Mimara.

For instance, in her very first POV in TJE, she comments that sometimes she imagines the World with its own living magic to it, which she compares and discredits to sorcery.

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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2013, 07:17:57 pm »
Quote from: themerchant
Just to add in something which may or may not be of interest/relevance.

Re-reading the end of WLW last night and during the scene with Gailan where she is looking into him and seeing his damnation etc, she sees a "fiery halo"above him, is Kellhus's ever described as fiery,  she sees Gailans' in the context of his damnation.

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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2013, 07:18:04 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
I don't think I noticed that. How is, for example, is an Akka POV a recalled one?

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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2013, 07:18:13 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Present tense (Mimara, WLW, Yatwer) vs. Past tense (Achamian - pretty much everyone else).

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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 07:18:21 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Well maybe I'm just not as literature savvy as some, but to me all the WLW sections are written in the past tense.

Take this for example:
"The room was little more than a cellar, even though it hung some four storeys above the alleyway. The plaster had sloughed from the walls, leaving bare stretches of cracked brick."

Isn't that past tense like everyone else? The only portions of the WLW that isn't like that is when he "sees" himself in the future. All of the discernible 'current' WLW scenes are past tense.
If not then could someone explain that more fully.

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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 07:18:32 pm »
Quote from: Madness
It's the difference between "He walked into the room and grabbed his keys" (Past Tense) vs. "He walks into the room and grabs his keys." (Present Tense), Wilshire.

It's a technical distinction in writing - some authors just refute structural holds we condone and write however they want. Bakker is, pretty clearly, using it to distinguish something.

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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 07:18:41 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
How about a more direct example of of it with the WLW. I understand the mechanics and that its meaningful (obviously, or i wouldnt have bothered askin) but i dont see it in the writing.

"He heard the people talking in the streets, voice piled upon voice, and he had difficulty sorting reasons form conclusions" -wlw 498
"Sometimes he gazed out the lone window..." -498
"He heard the horns call, realized what he had always known" -498
"He almost stepped upon it then thousand times" -498

Don't all those represent past tense? While Mimara's sections, every line is most obviously present tense
"She unties the laces of her jacket"
She unlaces her leather breeches"
"Motionless the scalpers gaze."
"Even Koll ... watches with licentious fury"

Though maybe I'm just cherry picking section, but at least to me the WLW seem decidedly not present, except, like I said above, when he's seeing the future rather than the current time.

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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2013, 07:18:52 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
Quote from: Madness
Well, the examples you cite suggest that Mimara's POV reflects that of the White-Luck Warrior and Yatwer.

Mimara actually has very few POV's over the course of TAE in comparison to Achamian, Sorweel, or Esmenet. At times, I thought Bakker simply chose the first person view to facilitate the tension and action during such sequences, which works well, but I'd say that he's holding on to some cards still concerning Mimara.

For instance, in her very first POV in TJE, she comments that sometimes she imagines the World with its own living magic to it, which she compares and discredits to sorcery.
Mimara has relatively few POVs in TJE, until Cil Aujus.  then she's the POV covering almost the entirety of that chapter (since Akka is unconscious for most of the battle). 

In WLW here POVs outnumber Akka and everyone else, she's the primary viewpoint of the novel.

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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2013, 07:19:00 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Well, lockesnow, I'm gonna go count words at some point. I feel like she feels very primary because she is new rather than actually having the most word count, or primary perspective.

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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2013, 07:19:09 pm »
Quote from: Tony P
Quote from: Wilshire
How about a more direct example of of it with the WLW. I understand the mechanics and that its meaningful (obviously, or i wouldnt have bothered askin) but i dont see it in the writing.

"He heard the people talking in the streets, voice piled upon voice, and he had difficulty sorting reasons form conclusions" -wlw 498
"Sometimes he gazed out the lone window..." -498
"He heard the horns call, realized what he had always known" -498
"He almost stepped upon it then thousand times" -498

Don't all those represent past tense? While Mimara's sections, every line is most obviously present tense
"She unties the laces of her jacket"
She unlaces her leather breeches"
"Motionless the scalpers gaze."
"Even Koll ... watches with licentious fury"

Though maybe I'm just cherry picking section, but at least to me the WLW seem decidedly not present, except, like I said above, when he's seeing the future rather than the current time.

Interesting point, I think Bakker definitely has something going on with that, but I don't know what. I assume it's tied to her Judging Eye (the God judges/exists the present at all times?)

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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2013, 07:19:16 pm »
Quote from: SkiesOfAzel
Maybe it has to do with the fact tha she has the JE? The JE resides outside of time according to Akka.

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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 07:19:25 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Wilshire and I had rehashed this in another thread but I was definitely mistaken. However, Mimara and Yatwer's perspectives are unequivocally present tense. Why is the Warrior's not? Why is Mimara's?

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2014, 06:21:48 pm »
I had never considered the *tense* of Mimara's POV's--going to have to reread!

Came to this thread to post--just realized, it doesn't seem impossible that Akka IS Mimara's dad.  He fails to see Esmi at the end of TDTCB and get that guy drunk/high and who knows?  Esmi could have been drunk too, or just doesn't remember because Akka didn't seem memorable at the time, or she keeps it a secret.  Just wondering if incest + pregnant female few = judging eye.

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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2014, 09:35:13 am »
As I wrote in another thread, it does not seem possible, for one reason -  Mimara's looks. TJE, Chapter 14  "For the first time, it seemed, he noticed how much lighter her [Mimara's] skin was than his or her mother's. For the first time he wondered about her real father, about the twist of caprice that had seen her born, rather than aborted by Esmenet's whore-shell." Esmi and Akka were Ketyai and from this passage it seems that Mimara's father must have been a Norsirai.
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake