Why can the skin spies see 'Chigra'?

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« on: June 03, 2013, 01:29:13 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Question is on the tin.

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« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2013, 01:29:23 pm »
Quote from: Madness
It reflects some kind of mark left by the grasping?

The fact that only the Consult can recognize it... well, people have some interesting speculations regarding the parallels between Seswatha's Heart and the Inverse Fire.

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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2013, 01:29:30 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
Bakker addressed this on the 3c's iirc.
His original idea was as Madness says above - recognizing Seswatha's mark on their soul; but upon reflection and in light of the way Earwan metaphysics work, it is the case that the souless skin spies could not aprehend this.
He then offered a placeholder explanation that attempts to address the issue by claiming that they recognize Seswatha's personality imprint via tics or mannerisms.

Not the best explanation but it is what we have.

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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2013, 01:29:37 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
I'd say that it could be some biological that that Consult have programed into their fleshy servants.
Maybe the grasping leaves behind some kind of physical, rather than metaphysical, mark. Pheromones maybe.

But Chigra I think is the name the Consult have for Seswatha. A pet name between lovers.

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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2013, 01:30:39 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Quote from: Curethan
Bakker addressed this on the 3c's iirc.
His original idea was as Madness says above - recognizing Seswatha's mark on their soul; but upon reflection and in light of the way Earwan metaphysics work, it is the case that the souless skin spies could not aprehend this.
He then offered a placeholder explanation that attempts to address the issue by claiming that they recognize Seswatha's personality imprint via tics or mannerisms.

Not the best explanation but it is what we have.
Thanks for the historical perspective there, Curethan! Ah, the god has abandoned it's world (well, the forums of it's world) and only memory remains!

Perhaps the nightmares leave certain smells in the sweat - occasionally a skin spy might get a false possitive 'Chigra' from someone who suffers nightmares but is not Mandate.

But it was put that without a soul they could not see and...the god recanted!?  :o Most interesting!

'Scuse the humour of calling authors gods of their world!

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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2013, 01:30:47 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Quote from: Cu'jara Cinmoi, 2006
This is actually a tough question, one that forces me to do some on the fly rationalizing. At the time, I was thinking that the Sranc have a 'racial memory' of Seswatha, something implanted by their Inchoroi masters. The problem is that their ability to detect the 'Seswatha-within' smacks of the supernatural, which cannot be the case for the Sranc (except for a handful of rare exceptions).

So I guess the idea would be that the skin-spies, given that their ability to duplicate others requires an exquisite sensitivity to their body language, are able to detect the imprint of Seswatha in the body language of Mandate Schoolmen - that in the course of the Grasping, Achamian and the others all inherit minute but characteristic 'ticks' belonging to Seswatha.

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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2013, 01:30:54 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Good find, Madness!

This is why I can't just find absolute sub text subtlety and nuance as if it has to be there in a text. It could be, or it could just be a not quite coherant set of ideas.

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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2013, 01:31:01 pm »
Quote from: Madness
It's all part of the sweet ambiguity, Callan. Hell, that's why there's an entire cottage industry of "Philosophy &..." books, right?

Actually, I just found a Bakker blurb on a Philosophy & Phillip K. Dick book :shock: .

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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2013, 01:31:08 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
"Racial memories". Dune reference.
Though I guess  the body language explanation makes pretty good sense. I'll accept that as intentional I suppose.