Dune (Frank Herbert) and TSA (Bakker)

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Francis Buck

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« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2013, 11:23:41 pm »
Not gonna read this thread too much right now due to spoilers, but I just started Dune yesterday (basically for the first time...I tried it once back when I was like 12 and couldn't get into it). Really enjoying it now though. Actually the whole reason I started it was because I just finished my reread of TSA and I wanted something kinda, sorta similar, and short of reading Lord of the Rings or the Bible, Dune seemed like the natural place to go.

Wilshire

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« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2013, 03:37:02 am »
A wonderful decision.  ;D

I'm glad I read all the way through to the end (including only the books by Frank), but I felt a couple of the middle books lost a bit of steam. The first couple and the last couple were great, but book 1 is simply a must read.

I would certainly avoid this topic. I can't remember exactly how heavy the spoilers are, but more than a few twists will be ruined if you peruse the first couple pages of posts, but don't forget to come back and regale us with your perspective.
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Madness

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« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2013, 02:06:13 pm »
Not gonna read this thread too much right now due to spoilers, but I just started Dune yesterday (basically for the first time...I tried it once back when I was like 12 and couldn't get into it). Really enjoying it now though. Actually the whole reason I started it was because I just finished my reread of TSA and I wanted something kinda, sorta similar, and short of reading Lord of the Rings or the Bible, Dune seemed like the natural place to go.

I hope you backed out until you are done but +1, FB. Don't listen to the haters.

I think the Duncan/Akka comparison is much stronger than Siona/Mimara. Siona was related to Duncan and was bred specifically to end Letto II's reign. She also had a power that made her immune prescience. Unless Mimara is Akka's daughter (i really hope not) and TJE somehow destroys Kellhus's ability to see her in his thousandfold thought, then I don't see it.

Too soon to tell. More information needed.

Because I'm concerned FB can't resist himself:

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Wilshire

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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2013, 11:26:07 pm »
Just in case  ;)
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Got me thinking though, the probability trance (and by extension TTT) is blind to unknown data/variables. If TJE is such a thing, it could really throw a wrench in his plans. Or, if there are others trying to to use TTT, they might miss that factor, causing divergent views of it.
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Francis Buck

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« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2013, 03:49:45 am »
Oh, I'll regale. I'll regale.  ;)

Seriously though, I'm a bit lost as to where to the best "ending" point is. I know people don't like Herbert's son's stuff, it seems. What that's the most natural endpoint? Like, where do most people think the series reached its peak?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 03:53:06 am by Francis Buck »

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« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2013, 01:17:54 pm »
Dune through Chapterhouse: Dune.

Only read the titles by Frank. And to be honest, you are safe to continue onto other non-Dune titles by Frank.

Dune
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune
God-Emperor of Dune
Heretics of Dune
Chapterhouse: Dune

Unfortunately, it was due to be a seven book series, which his son claimed to finish from his Dad's notes. Great attempt, Brian, but we could have fucked up the ending with our own imaginations.

Wilshire (because FB clearly hasn't left ;)):

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Francis Buck

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« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2013, 05:13:28 am »
Gotcha. Could one read up to Chapterhouse and still feel like it was a satisfying series, or is it really non-conclusive?

I just finished Dune. Very much enjoyed it. I love stuff that mixes elements of science fiction and fantasy. I'm not sure I feel like going straight into Dune Messiah, but I probably will. I was actually surprised by the similarities between Paul and Kellhus, especially by the end of the book, as well as the Bene Gesserit and the Dunyain. For some reason I had always assumed that the Dunyain and Kellhus were something Bakker totally made up on his own (which I found amazing because they're such incredible templates for SFF characters/ideas). Not that there's anything wrong with that by any means; as they say, all writers steal, the key is to take a kernel of an idea and turn into something new and unique (hell I've done that exact thing with Bakker himself -- and many other writers -- in some of my own writing).
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 05:15:27 am by Francis Buck »

Wilshire

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« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2013, 03:06:52 pm »
Yeah he said as much to me. The first few books of Dune Bakker got an idea or two from, though apparently none from the later books.

I'd say Chapterhouse is THE endpoint. It could certainly have used book 8, but it doesn't exist. There is a lot of closure and it could have ended nicely there, except Frank Herbert clearly had plans for another one and there are a few elements that don't get fully explained... and the epilogue is like chapter 1 of the next book. Its kind of frustrating, but I would rather leave it as it was written than try to read what amounts to (in my mind) a fan's version of how it might have ended.
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« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2013, 02:39:22 pm »
I have some things I want closure on, damnit!

Lol. Deep breaths.

I think Bakker needs to consolidate himself (don't we all). God-Emperor. Aspect-Emperor. Just fer appetizers.
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Francis Buck

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« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2013, 07:14:00 pm »
So I just finished Dune Messiah. Ended up reading most of it in a night (stayed up way too late). I thought it was awesome, personally. Very different from the typical route of this sort of story. I never would have seen Paul dying so early in the series, but it was very well done. It was interesting reading the foreward by Brian Herbert (I avoided it until I finished the book, I don't like reading forewards beforehand since they can sometimes indirectly spoil stuff). I was surprised that people didn't like DM at first, but I can totally see it. It goes in such a different direction than one would expect, but it's amazingly well-done. I also really like Alia as a character. I'll be starting Children of Dune as soon as possible.

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« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2013, 07:18:25 pm »
Isn't curious that a book written 50 years ago could hold such surprises and a genre bending plot?

Looks like we have ourselves another Dune junkie ;). Welcome.
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Francis Buck

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« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2013, 07:24:44 pm »
Yeah, especially for a SFF. It was definitely way ahead of its time.

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« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2013, 11:49:21 pm »
Lol. There is a Bakker quote somewhere suggesting a latent desire to rewrite the books after Dune. While Herbert's Saga is awesome, Bakker could really flesh it out.

I still appreciate Herbert's space espionage though :).
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
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Francis Buck

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« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2013, 09:24:26 pm »
Finished Children, started Heretics. Man, talk about a fucking time jump. I mean I was kind of expecting one in the back in my mind because I somehow had heard before that there was a big one, but it still took me by surprise.

Children was a little harder to get through. Still good, but certain points of it felt a little meandering. It definitely seemed kind of like a set up book, which, now seeing how far the story stretches, is beginning to make sense. I will say that I'm now very damn curious to see what makes up the next three books.

Wilshire

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« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2013, 09:51:00 pm »
God Emperor might have been my  least favorite, certainly the strangest. Worth reading through to get to Heritics and Chapterhouse.
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