TDTCB, PRLG

  • 74 Replies
  • 27206 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2013, 02:33:24 am »
Quote from: Madness
I'm not sure what I think of the spoiler liberties taken in this thread. I'll leave it up to the consensus of the group, whether or not the extent of these discussion most pertinent to discussing the Prlg itself.

Also, I encourage any first-time readers of PON who at any point may be following these threads to voice their opinions concerning the nature of spoilers and its affect on their experiences here.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2013, 02:33:37 am »
Quote from: The Sharmat
I'd assumed since this was a group re-read that spoilers were kosher. If not, then I apologize and will edit my comments.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2013, 02:34:04 am »
Quote from: Madness
Those of us who'd discussed a bit back and forth concerning spoilers, reached somewhat of a consensus - motivated mainly by myself - that we'd spoiler things relating to theories past the Thread Heading Ch, in this case Prologue. For instance, all this discussion about

(click to show/hide)

probably could have been in its own thread elsewhere.

Again, I believe that there is a lot ambiguity to TSA and that new readers sometimes would like clarification. So far, most, but not all by a long shot, of the members of this forum have been longtime readers and posters. However, some are completely new to the forums and the series and there hasn't been a lot of respect for this notion in any of the other subforums, which house the majority of the speculation on these forums.

I'm hoping this can be a place that new readers can come and sort confusion out for themselves without spoilers, rather than perhaps just abandoning the series.

Perhaps, its a lofty goal, though I felt we'd been doing decently, excepting the majority of the aforementioned discussion in this thread.

As I said, I leave it to those participating to conduct themselves as they will and a consensus will emerge from our communications. You have to remember, besides just enjoying the brilliant speculation by you intelligent peoples here, much of my motivation is to make Bakker money, to keep him writing, and cultivating a welcoming community, with a rising membership, is of first and foremost importance towards this goal.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2013, 02:34:20 am »
Quote from: Wilshire
Well as discussed before, and as you stated even, nothing was every really conceded. Madness mostly decided how it should be. This is not a problem, and I started out with a similar opinion. However, in general it has become, imo, silly to have whole posts in spoil tags. Also consider that the discussion is here, not on another bored, and people are generally lazy. Sure a whole topic could have been started and more people may have been involved, but the effort, however minimal, was enough to deter this.

Unfortunately, of the 110ish members registered to the site, the top 10 all have about 100 posts, top 20 goes down to about 20 posts, and after that there is almost no iteration. The opinions of the top 5-10 people who post most are severely disproportionately weighed, as no one else speaks up.

At this point I honestly dont care either way, spoilers or no, tags or no. I'd imagine that ,Madness, it would likely be best (at least for this portion of the site) for you to lay down a law, and enforce it. Otherwise nothing will officially every be decided and whatever is easiest will be done. It will be a pain, but if you start deleting or moving posts, people will figure it out pretty quick whats ok or not ok. Its not like you'll offend anyone, the people who post are here to stay, so a bit of irritating won't have any negative long term impact.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2013, 02:34:34 am »
Quote from: Wilshire
Nearly 1000 views of this topic and 48 replies. There are more than the 5 of us posting looking at these topics, I'm sure of it. Someone else has got to have something interesting to say.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2013, 02:35:25 am »
Quote from: sologdin
pretty sure that the view counter does not log IP address, based on a little test i just ran by reviewing the file several times in several seconds.  unless some other viewers were logging at exactly those times (given the history of forum traffic, i'm guessing it's not that busy right now), then each view is counted, no matter what the source.  the counter may therefore represent that aggregated views of the five of you who are consistently posting.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2013, 02:35:40 am »
Quote from: Church
i'm sure there are a fair few lurkers like me! reason for lack of posts, at least from my perspective, is that i just don't think there's that much to say about these chapters at the moment (esp the first emperor one) - they're all about setting up the story, and they do that well, but we're not really into the meat of the books yet...

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2013, 02:35:52 am »
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: sologdin
pretty sure that the view counter does not log IP address, based on a little test i just ran by reviewing the file several times in several seconds.  unless some other viewers were logging at exactly those times (given the history of forum traffic, i'm guessing it's not that busy right now), then each view is counted, no matter what the source.  the counter may therefore represent that aggregated views of the five of you who are consistently posting.

Im certain it doesn't count unique views. But consider that if there are 5 of us posting viewing multiple times, say each of us is at 100 some odd views ( a very large over estimate I would guess). That still leaves several hundred views of non participants.

Though Church, a valid point. Guess I'll wait till we go deeper before I start complaining again  :P

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2013, 02:36:12 am »
Quote from: koudoulis
i ll voice an opinion on spoiler policy since i cant seem to find my books and re-read ( but i still religiously* read the discussion ). I think the re-read section should not hide spoilers in any way. that makes it a hostile section to new readers but i dont think that someone who hasnt read the books should open a re-read thread. there area a lot of space in the forum for people to go and discuss spoiler -free.  however i dont feel very strong about it so its ok with me either way









*by religiously i mean i light up a cigarette before i read new posts...

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2013, 02:37:21 am »
Quote from: lockesnow
ah leweth

Quote
There must be some other explanation. There is no sorcery.

 “What do you know of Shimeh?” Kellhus asked. The walls shivered beneath a fierce succession of gusts, and the flame twirled with abrupt incandescence. The hanging pelts lightly rocked to and fro. Leweth looked about, his brow furrowed, as though he strained to hear someone.

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02). The Darkness that Comes Before (The Prince of Nothing) (p. 17). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.

Kellhus has just spent the prior paragraphs both trying to awe the reader with his awesomeness (explanation of the probability trance) and win the readers allegiance with his similarly enlightened readerly perspective of the poor dumb pre-modern folk (dismissal of sorcery et al as superstition, superstition everywhere).

And buried right after all that was this line I've bolded.  Implied in the above paragraphs is an accurate and far reaching description of the supernatural, but because Kellhus dismisses sorcery as impossible, as the noise of superstition, he misses a potential signal here--even though his subconscious is alerting him to the fact that Leweth is listening to someone, he doesn't gather that clue.  Note that Kellhus is particularly vulnerable to deception right at this exact moment because he has just exited the probability trance, and Kellhus never not ever ever DOUBTS the conclusions of the probability trance, he is always CERTAIN.  His conclusion was that there were too many variables and the truth was the only path.  And precisely moments after Kellhus experiences the thought "There is no sorcery," Leweth hears someone, and Kellhus is then given a perfectly accurate and decently complete overview of the religion of the three seas.  It's almost as though someone is watching and reading the thoughts on Kellhus' face and choosing the precise, most opportune moments to interfere directly.  When else would be the best moment to use some sorcery than seconds after Kellhus has experienced the thought that there is no sorcery?

What better way to deceive a reader and hide something in plain sight, than to do it after you have just awed and flattered the reader into agreement with the narrating perspective?

This is about like a peasant in 1400AD in the Caucausus mountains giving an accurate and decently complete overview of the state of Rome at the current moment.  It beggars belief.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2013, 02:37:41 am »
Quote from: Madness
Leweth does balance your assertion by suggesting the mundane know-how by way of those brave Galeoth caravans - another fanfic waiting to happen - making the Trade Route via Sakarpus to Atrithau and back. Also, from both Sorweel and Leweth, that the Three Seas are fanatic because, apparently, emissaries don't shut up about the Latter Prophet -

(click to show/hide)

But since I've enjoyed unilaterally engaging every one of these group Layers of Revelation by positing Gods... +1 ;).

(click to show/hide)

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2013, 02:37:53 am »
Quote from: Wilshire
Leweth could have been a well educated individual before he headed to the mountains. There is plenty of reason for him to know all that he does, and none of them involve magic.

He is not like the peasent in the mountain. He lived in Rome his whole life, of course he knows whats going on... Simple, mundane reasoning.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2013, 02:38:05 am »
Quote from: lockesnow
Quote from: Wilshire
Leweth could have been a well educated individual before he headed to the mountains. There is plenty of reason for him to know all that he does, and none of them involve magic.

He is not like the peasent in the mountain. He lived in Rome his whole life, of course he knows whats going on... Simple, mundane reasoning.
What about the possibility that Leweth is a shaman?

hermit, highly educated, had contact with mythical/semi-mythical caravans that no other person in Earwa has ever heard of, ;) lives alone at an outpost furthest from human civilization... was he driven out?  Summoned out?  Was he waiting?

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2013, 02:38:28 am »
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: lockesnow
hermit, highly educated, had contact with mythical/semi-mythical caravans that no other person in Earwa has ever heard of, ;) lives alone at an outpost furthest from human civilization... was he driven out?  Summoned out?  Was he waiting?

reminds me of a future version of a certain character living in a tower...

Spoiler due to some farfetched analogies that may give away portions of the series. Maybe.
Extreme crackpot:
(click to show/hide)

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5766
  • One of the other conditions of possibility
    • View Profile
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2014, 04:07:28 am »
Was reading the prologue and found this line interesting
page 17 TDTCB english small edition
"But what had come before, the Dunyain had learned, was inhuman"

minor world building spoilers maybe:
(click to show/hide)

Is he implying that the ebb and flow of all history were set in motion by brainless animals and inert rocks... How can the Dunyain complete there holy mission if they have to come before such things as this?
One of the other conditions of possibility.