Invisible to the Gods?

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What Came Before

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« on: June 04, 2013, 03:40:07 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
Watching the Hobbit last night, I was struck by 'invisibility'  That the Ring makes you invisible, perhaps in a sense you step outside, or you step into a shadow realm. 

This immediately spawned the thought that being invisible to the gods meant they could not find you and this made me think that the No God shares some sort of similarity to the One Ring.   Has Bakker weaponized invisibility, or made it seem a weapon, has he twisted things about so that the metaphysical properties of invisibility can answer the age-old question of 'how do you kill a god?'

I feel sort of loopy, not much sleep last night. this may not make any sense next time I look at it.

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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 03:40:17 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
no spoiler tag. great thanks. now I know that the ring makes you invisible AND its the one ring. :P

Maybe the carapace if effectively the Ring, but somewhat in reverse. Inside the carapace is one of the Hundred, but made invisible to not the world, but only to himself and his god buddies. That by forcing a god into the carapace, you force it to mortality and blindness.

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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 03:40:27 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
edit: I totally read your post wrong and somehow came up with this thought:

so putting on the one ring, rather than giving someone physical invisibility gives them cognitive invisibility?

Rather than being unable to see yourself you are unable to see your thoughts?

So rather than being startled when they wave a hand in front of their face and see nothing, one is startled by the lack of form.   But with a Bakker one Ring, when they have a thought they can't 'see' the thought forming in their mind as one normally does; they are startled by lack of being.

What Came Before

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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2013, 03:40:34 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Does 'startled' count as a thought? Or is it a passion and do passions still wash through, just not thoughts sourced from intellect?

Hey, if you make up stuff, people will ask questions about it! :)

MG

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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 05:12:07 am »
It hadn't occurred to me till I read this thread, but this is part of the whole Gyges' ring thing--that it makes you invisible to the gods!

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.3.ii.html

Do whatever evil you like when you wear the ring, because the gods will never see it!  Perhaps this fits with Nau-Cayuti = No-God?  He is esteemed by the gods before he's forced into the carapace, but after that, they simply cannot see him and his effect of breaking the cycle of birth?

Would be weird if the Consult is able to successfully recruit NC.  Maybe he's so pissed at Seswatha, he willing joins the Consult.

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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2014, 01:30:06 pm »
Plato's Republic is referenced, if not taught, in almost every Philosophy class I've ever had... I love, LOVE, seeing the crushed look on the faces of scattered fantasy fans who didn't know that Tolkien took his idea from a long-storied history of "power jewelery."

The schadenfreude of another's revelation of ignorance, ladies and gents.
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2014, 04:34:31 pm »
I really like the Gyges' Ring bit, especially the sort of prelude about the earthquake and horse and stuff. 

Madness

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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 12:04:42 pm »
It's all interesting. We simply spoil philosophy with "proper."
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2014, 10:31:25 pm »
It's all interesting. We simply spoil philosophy with "proper."

:P I don't find all of the Republic interesting!  I think there's some book 3 stuff that's pretty tedious.  I never could bring myself to assign whole books--I told the students which bits were the juicy parts.  Probably because I'm too stupid to decode it though.  XD

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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2014, 12:02:38 pm »
It's all interesting. We simply spoil philosophy with "proper."

:P I don't find all of the Republic interesting!  I think there's some book 3 stuff that's pretty tedious.  I never could bring myself to assign whole books--I told the students which bits were the juicy parts.  Probably because I'm too stupid to decode it though.  XD

Lol - I'm sure you do fine, MG. To the bold, this is what makes it digestible to teach and spoils philosophy with "proper" ;).

I actually wonder if students were told to read the whole book but then were taught what the juicy parts are, they might at least read the juicy parts (juicy parts being the argumentative bullet-points of the text).
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Crtha

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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2014, 03:39:45 am »
Check out the section on Plato here MG.
Maybe its just me, but it seems a close approximation to defining Earwan metaphysics.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2014, 03:27:20 pm »
Check out the section on Plato here MG.
Maybe its just me, but it seems a close approximation to defining Earwan metaphysics.

Nice!  I have to agree, especially with:

Quote
The soul is drawn to the good, the ideal, and so is drawn to God.  We gradually move closer and closer to God through reincarnation as well as in our individual lives.  Our ethical goal in life is resemblance to God, to come closer to the pure world of ideas and ideal, to liberate ourselves from matter, time, and space, and to become more real in this deeper sense.  Our goal is, in other words, self-realization.

Very Dunyain--Heh heh, I wonder if Plato would be shocked by the way Bakker replaces the heaven of ideas with the Outside: pure forms of birth, war, disease, etc.

This made me think that Bakker got the Nonman chariots from Plato's flying chariots...in the Phaedrus maybe?