The Scylvendi and their role.

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« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2013, 04:09:29 pm »
Quote from: Madness
I'm convinced it is mostly analogous to the mythological ideal of hypnotism.

People seem to overlook that Kellhus actually shapes and scrapes Serwe's memories using the techniques of the Whelming, as well as its attributes listed above.

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« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2013, 04:09:39 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
I almost mentioned the Serwe bit, he also does the same with Leweth.

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« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2013, 04:09:46 pm »
Quote from: Sideris
Quote from: Francis Buck
Quote from: lockesnow
My theory is the consult gave them the theory of swazond, and this helped them trap souls inward and allowed them to continue birthing babies.  Since they aren't civilized none of the three seas would ever ask, care or investigate if the Scylvendie also experienced the womb plague.

It's also possible that when Scott says 'whole nations will be wrong' because they're the wrong religion he means everyone but the scylvendie, and they've had it right.

Ah, that's what it was. Another method of keeping souls from entering the Outside, while also simultaneously retaining the ability to give birth (which would explain why the Scylvendi were cool with -- and indeed, supportive of -- a decidedly non-human-friendly apocalypse).

Kind of an unrelated question but it just popped into my head; do we have any concept of the population-levels of the Three Seas?

I always figured something around 150-200 million all told. Europe around the height of Byzantium, and before the first plague, seemed to hover around there. Possibly less, but for such a setting, the world seems densely packed. And Bakker does love killing people off by the tens to hundreds of thousands per book, at the least.

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« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2013, 04:09:55 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Have to wonder though - what it's like, not only to be a worshipper...but actually know your god is dead.

You see the nihilistic death worship from the outside, not from having been with god, but then god died.

I mean, imagine your lover dies - are you fucking someone else at the funeral? Or does a void open up? A heart wrenchingly wide one, and so very empty?

Now, when your god dies...

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« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2013, 04:10:07 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
Quote from: Callan S.
Have to wonder though - what it's like, not only to be a worshipper...but actually know your god is dead.

You see the nihilistic death worship from the outside, not from having been with god, but then god died.

I mean, imagine your lover dies - are you fucking someone else at the funeral? Or does a void open up? A heart wrenchingly wide one, and so very empty?

Now, when your god dies...
Good point, Jesus died... and that's why he's worshipped.

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« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2013, 04:10:15 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
And that's just when it's the sort of 'die' where you then push the big rock outta da way and walk up to heaven afterward.

Now imagine if jesus really died! He'd be bigger than jesus!

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« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2013, 04:10:27 pm »
Quote from: Sideris
Quote from: lockesnow
I almost mentioned the Serwe bit, he also does the same with Leweth.

And possibly something done to Achamian when Kellhus had tea with 'Seswatha'.

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« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2013, 04:10:34 pm »
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Sideris
I always figured something around 150-200 million all told. Europe around the height of Byzantium, and before the first plague, seemed to hover around there. Possibly less, but for such a setting, the world seems densely packed.
Europe plus the medieval Middle-East and India, more like.

"The Three Seas" are only the southern part of Eärwa, and that region spans everything from Nilnamesh (India) in the far south, all the way up to Galeoth (Northern Europe) in the north. And beyond that are even more lands, with Zeum being populated, while the far north is empty of life. The combined size of Eärwa and Eänna is definitely bigger than the Eurasian landmass.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bakker-world is a planet with only a single mega-continent, like Pangaea in our world's pre-history.

150-200 million is way too low.

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« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2013, 04:10:43 pm »
Quote from: Sideris
Yeah, I was ONLY speaking of the Three Seas. Not the Sranc, not Zeum, nothing else. Not even the Sclyvendi, though I'd only put them at a million or two.

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« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2013, 04:10:53 pm »
Quote from: Amun
I remember reading a question like this on the Three Seas forum. I think Bakker said he imagined the Three Seas as having somewhere around 75 million people.

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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2013, 04:11:01 pm »
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Sideris
Yeah, I was ONLY speaking of the Three Seas.
So was I, genius. And I'm still saying that Bakker's estimation is too low, because the Three Seas are far larger (and probably more crowded) than medieval Europe at its height.

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« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2013, 04:11:09 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Unless you're buds with the person, skip the 'genius' stuff, Auriga. We'll keep up the pretense of a library like environment, even if were all out the back of it, smoking.

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« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2013, 04:11:15 pm »
Quote from: Sideris
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Sideris
Yeah, I was ONLY speaking of the Three Seas.
So was I, genius. And I'm still saying that Bakker's estimation is too low, because the Three Seas are far larger (and probably more crowded) than medieval Europe at its height.

And I'm getting flak? Really? I'm merely clarifying. Ease up, guy.

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« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2013, 04:11:23 pm »
Quote from: The Sharmat
Quote from: Callan S.
Have to wonder though - what it's like, not only to be a worshipper...but actually know your god is dead.

You see the nihilistic death worship from the outside, not from having been with god, but then god died.

I mean, imagine your lover dies - are you fucking someone else at the funeral? Or does a void open up? A heart wrenchingly wide one, and so very empty?

Now, when your god dies...
Well the Scylvendi do basically exist to avenge their God's death.

I don't think their religion was as nihilistic as is claimed during the first apocalypse though. Remember the scene between Cnaiur and Skiotha? How the stars are holes in the veil of night, so they know that when it is night, it is truly day? Lokung apparently taught them that the world is a lie. Destroying a false world to attain the real one isn't nihilistic at all, and could explain their motive in working for the Consult.

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« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2013, 04:11:32 pm »
Quote from: Madness
We're lead to believe that Conphas basically destroyed the Scylvendi's martial capabilities as a coordinated society for, at least, a couple generations.

Plus, Kellhus has a tributary Scion in Tinurit of the Akkunihor. The Scylvendi seem to have yielded to the Kellian Empire in any meaningful capacity.

Aside, this does again seem to reflect conversations of Gnostic philosophy.