The inward and the world between.

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« on: June 04, 2013, 07:03:44 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
The cishurim percieve the world between via the third sight. 
This is (according to the EG):
Quote
The world as is exists "between" our perceptions of it, or "in itself".
Clearly this differs somewhat from seeing outside of the world, because the outside is comprised by meanings generated by perception.
E.G. There is a great danger when Akka and Xin walk the shadow ways - not the outside, yet outside of the perceptions of normal men. 
The Cishies themselves (and those well proportioned in the recollection of the onta) shine in the third sight and cast some kind of light via their perception there.
The False Sun mentions the Inward and describes Tirtirga as an Insinger.
There seems to be the suggestion that Tirtiga is directing his sorcery via the world between rather than onto the onta, thus his strange mark. 
...
Further speculation or other interpretations?

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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 07:03:53 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Well, obviously, we don't sensually experience the "objective world." Subjective me experiences a mediated perception. Also, we know that the Outside bends ultimately to desire of powerful entities.

So the World-Between would seem the "Objective World," as it exists without "observers."

The interesting assumption in Bakker's Earwa is that it seems that an entity is manifesting the material world, a la Burn's Sleep - dreaming Erikson's Malazan.

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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 07:03:59 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
So let us examine the distinction between percieving the onta and percieving the world-between.
The onta is the name given by the schools to the very fabric of what is. 
This still retains certain meanings in objects, evidenced by the ability to see the mark.
Then we have the world-between - as it exists in between our perceptions. 
Again there is, apparently, meaning immanent in this veiw, evidenced by Meppa seeing Psatma's soul as a withered hag.

Yor assumption presents a question about omnipotent creators that has always bothered me.
If an entity were manifesting all of reality, how then would it possess desire?  One cannot desire that which one controls... 
So why would reality yield if the creator has no alternate desires - everything should be already as desired. 
A dreaming entity suggests some larger reality that informs the content of the dream and the desires expressed therein.  Which would mean that Earwa is not the promised land - i.e. the plane of maximal objectivity.

According to Ajencis' dyadic theory the structure of existence is comprised by the relationship between the subject and object, desire and reality. 
Reality here being maximal objectivity rather than complete - proof of that being that we have seen that the gods can manipulate circumstance via their followers' perceptions.
Thus the 'objective world' also can yield to outside entities' desires.
We also know that aprehending the logos gives ensouled entities the abilty to change perceptions and thus bend circumstance to their desire - exhibit 'A' being Kellhus.
Therefore, rather than an entity manifesting this 'most objective' plane - perhaps it's inhabitants' perceptions are informed by this entity.  That is to say, it provides fundamental meanings.