Fate is a spire?

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« on: June 04, 2013, 07:05:18 pm »
Quote from: SkiesOfAzel
Scott recently brought to light something that has been bothering me since my first reading of the JE, that fact that the world conspires. From the beginning of the series, there were too many coincidences to be explained by luck (or lazy writing ;)) but with the AE books we can see a clearer pattern emerge. Events tend to repeat themselves.

  The parallels with the first apocalypse are hard to miss, The human emperor (an Anasurimbur) , the great Ordeal, a new Seswatha (Akka) etc. We can also observe that events keep repeating themselves faster and faster with the Cnaiur-Serwe Moengus-Serwa parallel.

  But every repetition also introduces changes, thus fate seems to twist reality in the shape of a spire. The most important deviation from the first apocalypse seems to me that is the absence of Nau Cayuti, the man that most probably became the NoGod. There was no child between Esmi and Akka. Still, Mimara (in WLW If I am not mistaken) thinks that she will bring Akka’s and her mother’s baby into the world, the symbolism is hard to miss.

  So if we take into account that Akka’s journey (and probably the last 20 years of his life) were conditioned by Kellhus, we can draw some interesting conclusions. The most immediate one is that Kellhus wanted that child to be conceived. Further proof that the child is very important is given by Aurang when he mentions that there is a prophecy connected to it. Akka’s dream in the beginning of the WLW also seems to hint that the purpose of the journey is to carry the child to the NoGod. Another juicy fact is that while Akka’s journey is conditioned, little Kel was the one that drove Mimara away, so Kellhus must have known about and conditioned his son as well.

  But what is Kell’s purpose? I believe that Kellhus is very much aware of Anage’s (which means need in Greek btw) role in the shaping of the universe. It seems to me that the TFT, similar to the Golden Path, is a sequence of actions that can nudge the spire of history to where he wants it to lead. It’s also safe to assume that he has chosen the path of least resistance as the safest path (thus the Empire, the Ordeal etc). But since history does repeat itself, Kell (Celmomas) seems destined to die with the Great Ordeal and Akka (Seswatha) destined to become the new leader of Men that will save the world. The talks between him and Proyas in WLW support this point, as Kell seems to be preparing Proyas for a future that doesn’t include him, but includes Akka.

  On the other hand, why would a completely immoral (and as damned as it gets) ubermench simply follow fate to the end and die? What if he intends to bolt from Anage’s path the last possible moment? And why does he want a modern version of Nau Cayuti? Does he intend to use the NoGod like an instrument? To what end?
Discuss :)

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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 07:05:26 pm »
Quote from: Jorge
The repetition has been noted before, indeed I think Callan went so far as to suggest that the entire world of Earwa is caught in some kind of self-repeating loop.

It may also tie into Nietzsche's concept of the eternal return, where we are doomed to live through the same thing again and again. The Thousandfold Thought may be what is required to escape this (or when followed too far is what allows it to continue*).



*"Where two reasons may deliver truth, a thousand lead to certain delusion. The more steps you take, the more likely you will wander astray." -Ajencis

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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 07:05:34 pm »
Quote from: SkiesOfAzel
Well, the loop idea is close to what i also had in mind, i have to check that post out. As for the concept of the eternal return, it’s interesting but I think that the principles behind the world of Earwa aren’t very compatible with Nietzsche’s ideas, meaning that while the effect is similar, the cause is probably not based on reason. Still, history tends to repeat itself in our world too, and it's just proof that we simply never learn :P.

 I had missed this Ajencis quote though and it seems very interesting. In the real world it's pretty self-explanatory: Many thoughts lead to many forks were the subjective human mind can easily follow the wrong path. But Earwa isn't a subjective world either, so what if the Scylvendi idea that the world is a lie is actually a fact? Wouldn't truth become a delusion? Were is an inverse flame when you need one?