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Messages - Eärwag

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I'm not sure who had the worst fate, but I lament Thelliopa's demise those most.  I had hopes for her, I liked to imagine that there was a purpose to her copious clothes, like she only dressed that way to conceal knives and other weapons on her person, and would one day take out a Fanim assassin with a hidden blade.  Instead she was abused as a child and crushed in an earthquake.  I wanted more for her, but that's how it goes.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Serwa and Kelmomas
« on: August 10, 2017, 06:32:13 am »
Could be - I wonder if Kelmomas could have even sent the skin-spy inside in his stead (as in, he retrieved the Chorae and the pouch from Sorweel's body but the skin-spy was the one to actually use it).

I think the pouch and chorae was trampled into the dirt but I imagine Kelmomas could have found it and given it to a skin spy, which makes me wonder how long Kel was wandering around the Upright Horn, and if he had had any contact with the Mutilated.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Serwa and Kelmomas
« on: August 08, 2017, 09:36:10 pm »
Earwag - I think the nuke tipped off Kellhus. The Inchoroi used nukes in the wars against the Nonmen, as recorded in the Isuphiryas, as Kellhus mentions, but we haven't seen anything like them in the Sagas. I gather the implication is that the Consult either couldn't make the nukes work, or the Inchoroi had run out of them by then. So in light of that, Kellhus came to the conclusion that it has to be more Dunyain, as who else would be able to either rediscover how to make the nukes work, or to build more?

Granted, the timing and multi-purpose function of the nuke might factor into it as well: deal a terrible blow to the Great Ordeal while also destroying the main food source of the survivors. Not exactly rocket science, but maybe more strategic than the Consult had been in his estimations up until then.

That sounds very reasonable to me, thanks. 

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Serwa and Kelmomas
« on: August 07, 2017, 08:13:12 pm »
So either Serwa in her damaged, harried and Qirri-fueled state in the middle of a topoi miscounted the 100 chorae, or the Consult had a chorae concealing pouch of their own and used one of it's agents to use it against Serwa at the most opportune time, probably by a skin spy. A skin spy would be better able to shadow a Dunyain, as it seemed to be right beside her when it fired the quarrel.  I think it wasn't a miscount but a Consult trick, for what it's worth.

While we are on the topic of the Consult testing Kellhus, I have another question that I wasn't sure about, without starting a whole new thread: what was it about Dagliash that seemed to convince Kellhus that the Consult had been conquered by Dunyain?  Did Kellhus doubt the capacity for the Consult to repair and use a weapon of light?  Was it the monumental nature of the trap they laid for Kellhus and the Ordeal?  Was it something he found when he was excavating Dagliash?  Was it the timing?  I know in TUC that Serwa at one point takes note of the timing of the attack on Golgotterath by the Horde, is this a Dunyain kind of thing?

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Serwa and Kelmomas
« on: August 07, 2017, 07:24:57 am »
It isn't the thing-called-Serwe. It's still with Cnaiur at this time (and remember there are many, many Skin-Spies in the Golden Room).

Lol, aside the number of fucking Skin-Spies that the Mutilated have at their disposal scare the shit out of me seeing as there are so few people left who are trained to recognize them. And if we attribute the novel Sayothi Skin-Spy at the beginning of TJE to the Mutilated learning the Tekne, we can assume that Zeum has already been infiltrated as the Three-Seas was before Kellhus.

I forgot that the skin spy was like his mom, there are so many.  I forgot about the Satyothi too.  It is going to be a rough time.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Serwa and Kelmomas
« on: August 06, 2017, 11:36:28 pm »
Thanks ThoughtsOfThelli.  Ok, I wasn't aware that she could have miscalculated, but I find that less likely.  I wasn't sure on the timing either, I couldn't tell how much time went between Serwa falling and Kel appearing behind his father.  I may have overstated the pouch disappearing, here is the quote in TUC page 242 :

He glimpses the Triple-Crescent Pouch through the trample of booted feet, sees it kicked into stamping obscurity, back into the nowhere from whence it come.

So there are other chorae concealing pouches, made my Emilidis.  I suppose it would be within the ability of the Dunsalt to repair one if they found one, as they did repair a weapon of light.  Makes me wonder of the one Sorwheel had was created by Emilidis too or not. 

The Unholy Consult / [TUC Spoilers] Serwa and Kelmomas
« on: August 06, 2017, 08:52:58 pm »
Hello, I have a question regarding the quarrel that grazes Serwa's knuckle in the Upright Horn.  From the story, Serwa counts 99 chorae and succeeds in evading them all, save for one, that seems to blink into existence the moment she calls for the others outside to come in.  I was wondering how a chorae could escape her Dunyain sorcerous scrutiny, and the only thing I could come up with is the triple sickle pouch of Sorwheel.  Here is what I think might have happened, though I cannot say for sure:

Kelmomas frees himself from his chains, then immediately sets off to see if he can retrieve the pouch he saw fall and be trampled into the dirt, so he can bring it to his father and prove to him he was only acting to protect Kellhus.  I know the story says it disappears back into the earth, but Kel is the No-God and can see through Yatwerian glamours, so I can see that he would be able to get it.  Now Kel has it and is eventually taken by the skin-spy called Serwë.  He is already in the Upright Horn by the time the Ordeal attacks, so maybe he kept the pouch and gave it to one of the Inversi, who affixes it to a quarrel but keeps the pouch on the tip, with instructions to only remove the pouch and fire once Serwa thinks all is safe, or maybe it is possible that Kel himself has the chorae and waits for the right moment to fire.

Anyway, sound plausible?  I can't see any other way to conceal a chorae than with that pouch, and Kel has already shown his fratricidal nature.  What do you think?

General Earwa / Re: The No-God and the 144k souls. [spoilers inbound]
« on: February 01, 2017, 09:48:00 pm »
Just to be clear Eärwag, reducing their number to 144,00 is just what shuts there Outside. If they number goes lower, then Outside is still shut. I have no doubt human souls are involved in awakening there No-God, I just don't agree it has to be 144,000.

ETA: it may only take ONE soul to do that. And that's what I am leaning towards.

I see, I didn't realize that, good to know. So they could attain the number, and then eliminate everyone and it would still work, and even if they didn't , it's not like the remaining souled beings could reproduce, having gone barren.

General Earwa / Re: The No-God and the 144k souls. [spoilers inbound]
« on: January 30, 2017, 10:35:42 pm »
The only thing ever said about 144,000 souls in the books is by the Wracu Akka faces off with. That is the number the population has to be reduced to to shut Eärwa off from the Outside. The No-God's is the Consults tool to do this quicker. Once the No-God rises there are no more births. So, many have speculated as to why the No-God even went to war in the first place. They could have waited until people died off and with no more babies being born it wouldn't have taking very long.

That's good to know, but I think there is more to that number, I'll have to reread that section. If it is the case that the population needs to be 144k in order to shut out the Outside, what happens if one trips and falls to their death? If everyone is sterile, than you can't replace a lost person, and the number is broken. However, if it is the case that the number of souls need only be trapped in the Carapace, as I believe is the case as revealed in Akka's dream of the chain gang being lead into some clanging mechanism, than the Consult need never worry about losing a soul here and there, and they would only have to eliminate all remaining living souls to attain the magic number.

However, that would mean that the Skylvendi would have to be betrayed at some point, once the rest of humanity is eliminated. I wonder how they felt when their wives were rendered barren by the No-God? They seemed to be ok with it, fighting alongside the No-God at Mengedda. I can't wait to see what the battle will be like between Cnaiür and the People, and Proyas and the Ordeal.

Alternatively, if it is the case that the Carapace is not some kind of Wathi doll of epic proportions, a giant soul trap, than there would have to be a population of souled beings kept around, and maybe that role would fall to the Skylvendi, some kind of chosen people? Perhaps the Consult could grant them immortality, keep their population at 144k, and use their Tekne to replace any Skylvendi who die, like in an artificial womb of some sort; I'm sure it would be within their capability.

That also raises another concern though, would the Consult have to hunt down all artifacts that contain a soul, like Wathi dolls, and the masks used by the Nonmen to imprison souls? What about any wights left around, like the Nonman King in Cil Aujas? I guess all will be revealed in The Unholy Consult. Thanks!

General Earwa / Re: The No-God and the 144k souls. [spoilers inbound]
« on: January 30, 2017, 09:49:25 pm »
Welcome to the forums, and yes, it is a LOT to take in. More so than even some of our more experienced members realize, I think. Including myself, :)

As to your second question, I believe that the "Derived" simply refers to the Weapon Races -- Sranc, Bashrag, Dragons, etc. Much like Lord of the Rings, where Sauron cannot create "new life" but only twist previously existing entities into new forms, in TSA the situation is similar (at least on the surface). Shauriatas can only derive new creatures out of the bios of existing lifeforms.

Sauron tortured and twisted Elves until they became Orcs.

The Consult deciphered the bios (presumably the genome) of Nonmen and created Sranc.

Details are scant on Bashrag on Dragons, but I think that's the general idea.

Yes, thanks! If I remember, Wutteat said that the Inchoroi Sil rode on his shoulder as they initially left their space ship, so I guess dragons were created elsewhere. The bashrag I think must have been created elsewhere, but their tripled nature reminds me of Nonman sculptures that depict three poses in one, so I'm not sure. I think the Synthese must have been created by Shauriatis, some rude combination of human and bird.

I keep coming back to the No-God though, I reread one of the dreams where No-God is asking what he is, "What am I?", but with the voice of a hundred thousand Sranc, or could that be one hundred forty four thousand? It would be hard to tell the difference if they were all screeching at once. That would be a special kind of torture, to be lost in a legion of souls, unable to see or know what you are, speaking as a multiplicity.

Just once I'd like a part of the story to be told from the viewpoint of a Sranc, to see the world the way they do. Maybe Akka can have a dream but as a Sranc on the Battleplain of Mengedda? One can hope.

General Earwa / Re: The No-God and the 144k souls. [spoilers inbound]
« on: January 25, 2017, 06:53:12 am »
Mimara doesn't have the Judging Eye, really. Her baby does. It is the Eye of the Unborn - Zero, for all intents and purposes and so far as we know.

Zero is not "God", according to Koringhus's assessment. This is important to keep in mind.

Recall that in TGO, after Koringhus has noticed the Black Halo of the Judging Eye, he sees Mimara bend over, but the Halo remains in the same spot, which symbolizes the distinction. 

Mimara is the ringbearer, not the ring itself.

I forgot about that, would that mean the JE is passed onto the child once born, and then they would be able to us it, leaving Mimara unable to see soul and their radiance? I am in the process of rereading the series's and am taking notes as I go this time, it's just so much to take in.

By the way, do you remember when Nau Cayutus (sp?) is talking to Shauriatis he and mentions the Derived, what do you suppose that is, the No-God, or something else?

General Earwa / Re: The No-God and the 144k souls. [spoilers inbound]
« on: January 25, 2017, 06:46:44 am »
I think part of the problem is that, like many, MANY things in this series, the situation with the 144,000 souls is being presented to us in a "backwards" (or otherwise obfuscated) way.

For example, perhaps it's less that the No-God requires there only to be 144,000 souls on Earwa in order to achieve the Apocalypse -- rather, that is simply how many people will be left once the Apocalypse occurs. The Consult may not even know how many must die, but only that the end-result will be that number. Which would make (some) sense of their "burn it all" methodology. I'm sure there's a mathematical term for this sort of thing but I am a mathematical moron to the highest (lowest?) degree, so...

On the other hand, the number of 144,000 may not be important at all to actually achieving the Apocalypse, so much as it is the number of souls required to repopulate the New World -- once the No-God, or New God, has achieved dominion over the existing one. So, for the Consult it's equally an important number to be reached as it is a signal to stop being genocidal lunatics.

Yes, like a tipping point, just kill until there are only 144k souls left, then it kind of unfolds as it should. In that scenario it would pay to be as far from Golgotterath as possible. I wonder what the rest of Eänna is thinking about the Great Ordeal, the must have heard of it.

General Earwa / Re: The No-God and the 144k souls. [spoilers inbound]
« on: January 25, 2017, 06:32:40 am »
I may be wrong, but all the Synethse said was that all prophecies must be respected. And that, only after Soma mentioned that Mimara was pregnant.

I think you are right, your memory is better than mine. I seem to recall Akka saying something about pregnant people having the JE too, which may mean it leaves her when she gives birth.

General Earwa / Re: The No-God and the 144k souls. [spoilers inbound]
« on: January 25, 2017, 02:13:27 am »
Indeed, so my point was that 144,000 souls would be trivial to aquire.  In fact, a soul a minute is even reasonable, so if it was just a numbers game, why isn't the No-God already here, 20 years post-Kellhus?

Instead, I previously presented the idea that it is a specific kind of soul that is needed and so the Consult might just be dumping in tons of them in the hopes that maybe one is the right sort.

Maybe it isn't the souls that are time consuming, but the manufacture of the Carapace that takes up so much time. Moënghus learned from the skin spies that the Consult was about 20 years away from ressurrecting the No-God, maybe there is a 20 year build time on the Carapace?

That thing about a specific kind of soul being required occurred to me too. The Synthese mentioned that the prophecy proclaimed something about the Judging Eye, maybe the Consult needs the JE to filter out pure souls from damaged souls?

And in turn, they might be in/on the Carapace to simply protect it from simply being destroyed by sorcery.  It it, after all, take a might mundane weapon to crack it.  Presumably Seswatha's Gnosis could have done it, if there were no Chorae there.  But maybe it's both.  Keeps the No-God in and sorcery out.

That's true, it took the Heron Spear to crack the Carapace before. If the Consult has reclaimed the Heron Spear, than there may be no way of stopping the No-God this time around, unless the Tekne Kellhus found in Dagliash is capable of doing it.

General Earwa / Re: The No-God and the 144k souls. [spoilers inbound]
« on: January 24, 2017, 04:27:47 am »
While I like the idea and even thought about it myself from time to time, it doesn't really make sense from a practical standpoint.  Consider that if they fed one person per hour, 144,000 people would take 6,000 days.  That is 16.43 years.  Not much of a "millennial task" really.

One the chorae, I have at times, speculated that chorae might be blind spots to the No-God, a possible reason why Skarpus and Atrithau survive the First Apocalypse.

I don't have the book with me, but the pace at chain gang was moving forward in the alternate dream of Akka was much faster than one length an hour, it seemed to be clanging at a fairly regular pace as I recall but I don't have the book or passage on me so I'm not too sure.

As for the chorae, I think you may be correct, the chorae may protect against the No-God.

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