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Messages - Swayal Serpent

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General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Esmenet and the JE
« on: June 04, 2018, 10:25:12 pm »
Didnt mean to cut your speculation off, just was pointing you to some good convo on the subject. But, yes, Bakker said Serwe was a cipher and it hits home with Koringhus's revelations, so to say.
Well thank you for the reccomendation. I didn't know there was a community re read going on, I'll check out that topic

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General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Esmenet and the JE
« on: June 04, 2018, 10:15:32 pm »


Quote from:  SwayaliSerpent
I believe there is a Bakker quote somewhere that says something along the lines of "Serwe is a cipher for the morality of the series." At the time, I took it to mean that Serwe was right about Kellhus being a prophet, but in light of recent revelations, it would make more sense that he was referring to her innocence and ignorance. I wonder what mimara would see if she saw Serwe with TJE?

Yep, we went over that quite thoroughly in our last reread.

Oh ok, sorry if I've been bringing up old topics. I drive trucks cross country, so I've been listening to the audiobooks lately. It's tough to analyze when your driving a big rig lol

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General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Esmenet and the JE
« on: June 04, 2018, 10:04:33 pm »
Quote from:  H
I need to give this more though and to look more into in along the reread, but the Cubit really does care about ignorance as a key tenant.  I believe, if I remember correctly, that Kellhus purposely keeps Esmenet ignorant of a number of things to protect her.  And he was right to do so.

Also, I'm not sure that Yatwer's favor, or disfavor, can transgress The Cubit.

To the bold, you're correct. We see throughout the series several times that ignorance is holy. But, the real proof lie in what Koringhus tells us right before his leap.
I believe there is a Bakker quote somewhere that says something along the lines of "Serwe is a cipher for the morality of the series." At the time, I took it to mean that Serwe was right about Kellhus being a prophet, but in light of recent revelations, it would make more sense that he was referring to her innocence and ignorance. I wonder what mimara would see if she saw Serwe with TJE

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I'm inclined to believe she would see what Kellhus told Proyas. Damnation.
Ah yes, I forgot about that. Although it is possible that Kellhus only said that to condition Proyas. He needed to turn Proyas into an unbeliever, and telling him Serwe is damned would be a good way to cement Proyas' disbelief

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General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Esmenet and the JE
« on: June 04, 2018, 06:57:45 pm »
Quote from:  H
I need to give this more though and to look more into in along the reread, but the Cubit really does care about ignorance as a key tenant.  I believe, if I remember correctly, that Kellhus purposely keeps Esmenet ignorant of a number of things to protect her.  And he was right to do so.

Also, I'm not sure that Yatwer's favor, or disfavor, can transgress The Cubit.

To the bold, you're correct. We see throughout the series several times that ignorance is holy. But, the real proof lie in what Koringhus tells us right before his leap.
I believe there is a Bakker quote somewhere that says something along the lines of "Serwe is a cipher for the morality of the series." At the time, I took it to mean that Serwe was right about Kellhus being a prophet, but in light of recent revelations, it would make more sense that he was referring to her innocence and ignorance. I wonder what mimara would see if she saw Serwe with TJE

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General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Esmenet and the JE
« on: June 01, 2018, 03:03:14 pm »

Yatwer didn't want her dead. IIRC she was prepared to throw a chorae at Kellhus during the end of TGO.

TLEILAXU is right here, Yatwer's target was Kellhus. Esmenet (or any of their children for that matter) were just collateral damage. Esmenet made a deal with Yatwer's own White-Luck Warrior to kill her husband (who only survived because Kelmomas' sudden appearance interfered with the WLW, with Kelmomas being invisible to the Gods and all).


I'll have to go back and check to make sure, but there were multiple times that the WLW "saw himself" killing Esmenet. Im on the road so I don't have any physical copies with me, but I'm positive that Issiral was going to kill Esmenet too. As for the chorae, that whole seen was a bit confusing. I thought the walls of the palace had chorae built inside of them, and the earthquake causes one to nearly hit Kellhus

I think it's more along the lines that the WLW saw Esmenet dead, not that he killed/would kill her himself. I always assumed he saw her dying in the collapse of the Andiamine Heights during the earthquake (you know, like Thelli - the WLW didn't kill her either, not directly at least). Kelmomas' interference caused both Kellhus and Esmenet to survive that moment.

Oh I see what your saying. It's very difficult to tell what's going on in Issiral's head. And I suppose Yatwer might not have anything to do with TJE in the first place

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General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Esmenet and the JE
« on: June 01, 2018, 12:47:38 pm »
Yatwer didn't want her dead. IIRC she was prepared to throw a chorae at Kellhus during the end of TGO.
I'll have to go back and check to make sure, but there were multiple times that the WLW "saw himself" killing Esmenet. Im on the road so I don't have any physical copies with me, but I'm positive that Issiral was going to kill Esmenet too. As for the chorae, that whole seen was a bit confusing. I thought the walls of the palace had chorae built inside of them, and the earthquake causes one to nearly hit Kellhus

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7
We definitely did get a short Skauras POV, and your right, it wasn't nearly enough! His inner monologue was pretty interesting, especially considering he knew he was about to die. As for a POV we never got, i agree 100 percent that Maithanet would have been awesome. Other than him, Kosoter would have been awesome. I'd love to see what's going on in his head

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General Earwa / [TUC Spoiler] Esmenet and the JE
« on: June 01, 2018, 07:21:35 am »
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I haven't seen much about it. After finishing a reread of TUC I remembered that Esmi is not damned according to TJE. Why in the world would she not be damned? She's done some horrible things, and Yatwer wanted her dead too. The only reasons I can think of would be that either Mimara's forgiveness saved her, or her hatred of Kellhus changed Yatwers mind. Both seem like weak theories, but I can't see any other reason she wouldn't be damned

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The No-God / Re: Deaths in TNG
« on: May 21, 2018, 05:23:28 pm »
I think Esme will probably die, but I'm pretty certain Akka is going to make it. I think he's getting set up to be the next Seswatha, and Ses was a survivor of the first apocalypse. Akka's going to keep the gnosis alive and refound the mandate!

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General Earwa / Re: POV's in TGO/TUC
« on: May 16, 2018, 03:30:43 am »
Has anyone mentioned Saccarees POV in TGO? He had a small section when Aurang arrives at Dagliash. He tried to challenge Aurang while channeling Seswatha until Aurang left

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sorry if this is off topic a bit, but did i miss something? I thought that Sacarees was still very much alive at the end of TUC. I know theres a good chance he died in the chaos at golgotterath, but as far as we know hes still breathing. So, isnt sacarees the most powerful schoolman left? And thats assuming Serwa didnt make it, which I think is unlikely

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General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Nascenti of Zaudunyanicon
« on: August 16, 2017, 04:00:50 am »
Also, what prompted him to say that? Did someone ask about them first or did he simply say "no questions about halos" before the Q&A began?

Somewhere near the start of Friday Q/A somone asked a questions about something, Kellhus maybe?, and in the answers he tacked on "and no questions about halos" - that is my vague memory. Good thing I got recordings and we won't have to rely on my shit memory once we type it up.

-And no, I have no intention of posting the recordings. Some moments were not for the rest of you. Come to the next one ;) . Bakker the Younger will be posting plenty of stuff for you all eventually, and we'll be posting pictures. I've got a great one of him signing the Coffers :D .

Petty. Almost nauseatingly similar to jealous small-minded disciples hoarding their master's words for temporal power.  This author, future Zaudunyani cons and this work will not be served by secrecy of any kind.  Martin, Abercrombie and Rothfuss are most well served by fans shouting to the heaven's and across reddit anytime they get a chance to hear thoughts from their favorite scribe.

Get out of the way and spread the word.

Edit(s): Added the damage to future cons and grammar.

I don't think that's entirely fair. Wilshire has already been kind enough to share alot with us, and will probably continue to share with us. While I do.wish that he would share the recording, he has no obligation to, and I understand why he wouldn't. Bakker probably told the nascenti to keep certain things confidential to avoid spoilers for the rest of us

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Forgot about good ol' Malowebi. That is indeed a horrible fate. Especially if he is trapped in that head for years upon years.

It's a horrible fate in a reality where Hell isn't an alternative.  Time spent trapped in that head is time not spent in Hell. 

Proyas and Saubon are both representative of everyone Kellhus has analyzed, exploited, used, and discarded.  Proyas is self righteous and judgemental but he's also the man who would take no more water than his men when dying of thirst in the desert and shows compassion for the weak while much of Saubon's damage is from being raised by an abusive father and being haunted by the need to try and measure up to the harsh standards of a wicked tyrant.  The accomplish great things and, like everyone else, are discarded without thought or gratitude the moment it is advantageous to do so.

I think this is an excellent representat ion. Proyas spent his entire life trying to do the right thing, and in his mind, all the murder and bigotry was for the greater good. He hated all of the bloodshed (I think it was stated in TWLW that he wept upon hearing that thousands of women and children were murdered in Ainon), but he really believed he was saving the world, and that the ends justified the means.  Though Saubon on other hand, isn't all that sympathetic to me. He only does things for himself, and he just acts like a dick most of the time. I don't think he deserved what he got, but he's just not a nice guy. As for the worst fate, I kind of think Aurang got a raw deal. He was literally hours away from his salvation, but then Kellhus destroys him in an instant. He's seen the inverse fire, has spent ages fearing death and damnnation, but in the end, all his efforts were for nothing, and he gets sent to the deepest pits of hell

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] How big is Sil?
« on: August 09, 2017, 01:47:05 am »
I've always thought that the Inchoroi's wings were grafted, and that would explain the shrinking. Even the Inchoroi have to obey the laws of physics, and a 20 foot tall monstrosity would have a difficult time flying
There are Wracu, though.

Fair enough

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] How big is Sil?
« on: August 08, 2017, 02:05:27 am »
I've always thought that the Inchoroi's wings were grafted, and that would explain the shrinking. Even the Inchoroi have to obey the laws of physics, and a 20 foot tall monstrosity would have a difficult time flying

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