Hey H, I was a little drunk when I typed this up so it kind of goes off the rails a little.
Not a problem, it's no sweat, easy to spin yarn from my armchair here. That has always been my 'trouble' with storytelling, I can spin, but I can never weave yarn, if you follow what I mean.
I follow. I tend to run into the same problem myself. It’s something I’m trying to work on.
OK, that makes sense. God is a despot. Lucifer is not, so there is definitely room to play with the concept of 'rule-gone-awry.' I need to think more on grander implications. I think a central theme here is freedom and it's costs. At what cost does Lucifer's allowance of freedom come? At what cost does his love come?
Yeah, that’s exactly the kind of angle I want to take with this. But exploring grand themes is tough lol
Another thing I’m wrestling with is Lucifer’s love for God. When I was first fleshing this out I planned on having God be a fairly unambiguous tyrant, and on casting Lucifer as a kind of promethean freedom fighter. But I’ve always really liked the idea that Lucifer’s love for God is unrivaled and I keep arguing with myself about how I can work that in. It wasn’t something I planned for and it doesn’t easily fit in with the mythology as I’ve set it up. Why would Lucifer love this tyrant God so much? I guess God could have just programmed that into Lucifer nature but that isn’t very interesting. Ideally, Lucifer’s love for God is something pure, not pathological. I’m not sure it’s a concept I’ll end up trying to include but it’s on my mind. Introducing some moral ambiguity to God is probably a good idea anyway. Thoughts on what that should look like?
Indeed, that is good. One thing that begs though, is if the Nonmen were God's chosen people, why did they choose to not back Christ upon realizing he would bring back God? Is it because they realized that God was a despot and so they wanted to keep the power they gained in his absence? It's deep, because when we, in the real world, say "so-and-so is God's chosen" what we really mean, "so-and-so has chosen God" but in your world, it literally means that God has chosen them.
Yeah, exactly. I like the idea of them rejecting God’s favor. I haven't decided exactly where I’m going with it yet though.
Loosed from the shackles of God's indomitable will though, they chose freedom rather than a return, even a return that brokered 'elevated status.' That's kind of fascinating, how they gave up so much in the name of freedom. Raises interesting questions about the worth of freedom at such a high cost.
There’s also the question of what benefits that “elevated status” actually conferred. I can think of a few main things that the chosen people usually receive in myth. Possibly some divine assistance in the form of miracles. This is D&D so we can assume that this exists, probably in the form of paladins and priests with Saint-like abilities from God. Divine guidance is pretty ubiquitous, prophets and oracles. The big one though is entrance into heaven. Why did they give that up? And how does it work in this world? Now that God is overthrown, do you need to worship Lucifer to get into Heaven?
I hadn’t considered that God’s absence allows mages to manipulate the Word more freely. I’ll consider that. Regardless, I don’t think the forerunners rejected Christ because they were power hungry. I want to make it weirder than that if I can.
Maybe heroism is just in their nature. Different varieties of this are pretty standard for elves and elf-equivalents like the Nonmen. Elves are naturally good or wise or whatever. It’s almost an essential trope for elder fantasy species.
I especially like the way Bakker did this with the Nonmen. They aren’t fundamentally good obviously. As a society they’ve committed more than their fair share of atrocities, and the personalities of individual Nonmen seem to vary as much as human personalities do. But it seems like they are fundamentally “epic”. They’re sort of Nietzsche-ian. They have this ancient greek vibe, like they’re genetically predisposed to behave like characters from the Iliad and the Odyssey. Maybe they only come off that way because all we get as readers is historical accounts and folk stories but I doubt it.
So some variation of that is one possibility for why they rejected God. Something in their alien psychology put them at odds with him. The simplest form of this could be similar to the Nietzsche-ian heroism of Bakker’s Nonmen or the tragic sense of duty that the Tolkiens elves have. The Forerunners recognized that their God was a tyrant and so they stood against him.
The other possibility I see that relies on their culture alien psychology is something you mentioned. The Forerunner’s could value freedom more than God’s Grace, or despise servitude to such a degree that they couldn’t bear God’s dominion. It could be weirder than that too, like they despise peace so much that the idea of eternal tranquility in the bosom of God. Anyway, whatever explanation I go with, I want it to say interesting stuff about them. Whatever gives me the most meat to work with going forward I should probs pick. What exactly does it say about them if they venerate freedom so much they choose it over God.
I admit, I am partial to the idea of God having a confederate Angel 'on his side.' My first thought goes to Michael, since it would have been him who had lead God's fight with Lucifer in those early days. Now, he slowly attempts to covertly work to bring back God, by the resurrection of Christ, but his work is slow because he cannot be seen to be openly defying Lucifer.
I’m definitely into this. My plan right now for the overarching narrative is to have the players stumble into an angel’s scheme to open a gate to hell. It’ll be up to them whether they get played by the angel or start trying to unravel the conspiracy.
The player characters can be pawns of Michael, perhaps he appears to them, presents something as a Holy quest, but really unwittingly aiding in the Resurrection, to perhaps find the tomb of Christ (or something similar) or sundering it, or perhaps something else. No doubt, the Nonmen would not be pleased about this, so there is a potential conflict there.
Ideally I’d like to draw them into it more subtly. The game is still in a kind of gritty noir western-y place, so direct contact with an angel would be out of place. I’m gonna try to bring in the epic powerhouses slowly. I want the players to feel me slowly turning the heat up as the angels plans proceed and the world approaches catastrophe.