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Messages - TheCulminatingApe

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121
The Almanac: PON Edition / ARC: TWP Chapter 9
« on: October 05, 2018, 06:22:21 pm »
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One can look into the future, or one can look at the future.  The latter is by far the more instructive.
- AJENCIS, THE THIRD ANALYTIC OF MEN

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If one doubts that passion and reason govern the fate of nations, one need only look to meetings between the Great.  Kings and emperors are unused to treating with equals, and are often excessively relived or repelled as a result.  The Nilnameshi have a saying, "When princes meet, they either find brothers or themselves," which is to say, either peace or war.
- DRUSAS ACHAMIAN, THE COMPENDIUM OF THE FIRST HOLY WAR

122
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 6
« on: October 05, 2018, 06:18:04 pm »
Thanks to TheCulminatingApe for keeping these synopsis chapters going.
Cheers!

You're welcome :)

123
The Almanac: PON Edition / other readers
« on: October 05, 2018, 06:17:02 pm »
http://www.jmd-reid.com/rereads/

Looks like someone else is having a re-read :D

124
General Misc. / Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S7)
« on: October 05, 2018, 06:15:48 pm »
Just read this. Anyone read her novel The court of broken knives?

I know MSJ did and really liked it.  I personally couldn't find my way into the prose.

Answers question from September:
I found the prose really strange but very enjoyable, however the story itself was fairly average IMO. For that reason I'd say the book(s) aren't worth reading if you don't like the prose. Worth checking out - read the first handful of pages and you'll know if you like it or not.

That's pretty much what I thought as well.

125
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 8
« on: September 30, 2018, 06:33:18 pm »
End of Part 1.

Kellhus is working his 'magic' on Athjeari.
They come upon two men engaged in a traditional Galeoth martial art called gandoki (or shadows).  To win you must knock your shadow to the ground.  There's probably some deeper meaning that could be inferred from this.

'Sarcellus' turns up, but of course,
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...Sarcellus, the real Sarcellus was dead.  What stood here in his stead was a beast of some kind, an exquisitely trained animal.  It had wrenched Sarcellus from his place and had assumed all he once was.  It had robbed him even of his death.
No murder could be more total.
Nasty.

Kellhus reads the skin-spy.
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The thing called Sarcellus fairly trembled with ardour.  These things hungered, Kellhus realised.  They ached.
Of all the rude animal impulses that coerced and battered the intellect, none possessed the subtlety or profundity of carnal lust.  In some measure, it tinctured nearly every thought, impelled nearly every act.  This was what made Serwe so invaluable.  Without realising, every man at Xinemus' fire - with the exception of the Scyvendi - knew they best wooed her by pandering to Kellhus.  And they could naught but woo her.
But Sarcellus, it was clear, ached for a different species of congress.  One involving suffering and violence.  Like the Sranc, these skin-spies continually yearned to rut with their knives.  They shared the same maker, one who harnessed the venal beast within their slaves, sharpened it as one might a spear point.
The Consult.

So is Kellhus subject to the demands of carnal lust then?  Or does Dunyain training allow one to overcome or subdue it?

More on the way the Consult use lust, which has been strongly implied earlier.

Kellhus tries to trick the skin-spy in to thinking the previous Sarcellus has betrayed itself to him.  It drags him in to the gandoki ring.
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"We are old, Anasurimbor, very, very, old.  Age is power in this world."
He was bound to a beast, Kellhus realised, to something, according to Achamian, begot in the bowels of Golgotterath.  An abomination of the Old Science, the Tekne... Possibilities bloomed, like branches twining through the open air of the improbable.

It has preternatural reflexes, and is very strong.  Just like a Dunyain.

The skin-spy means to kill Kellhus, but he defeats it by lifting into the air, causing the poles to break, and then knock it over (lifts it up to knock it down).
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Bones should have been broken.  But then, Kellhus now knew, it was a thing without bones, a thing of cartilage...
Like a shark

Saubon is in his tent with Athjeari, distraught.  He will not see Kellhus.
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"As you wish," his nephew murmured.  Glancing once again at the bones prodding through the earth, he withdrew through the leather flaps.
Bones.  Like so many little tusks.
Men have bones.  At Mengedda the earth itself has bones, which are compared to tusks - i.e. a clear religious/ spiritual analogy.  Skin-spies have no bones, and therefore presumably no relation to the Gods. 

Eleazaras talks with Iyokus.  Iyokus suggests visiting the ruins. Eli thinks
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antiquarianism a defect of character proper to Mandate Schoolmen.
Eleazaras decides that he will conserve his strength and continue to allow the Men of the Tusk to kill Cishaurim - to maintain the power of the Scarlet Spires.
They discuss Achamian and his link to the skin-spy found in Momemn.  Iyokus is sceptical that Akka can be interrogated. 
Eleazaras can only see his own self-interest - he is contemptuous of the Mandate and cannot conceive that the Consult might be real.

Esmenet is having a wonderful time in the hills with Akka.  She cleans his mouldy satchel.  She finds his 'map', which he then explains to her.

She wants to know why he has stopped.
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"I know what you're supposed to do, Akka.  In Sumna, you were constantly out, making inquiries, courting informants.  Either that, or you were waiting on some news.  You were constantly spying.  But not any more... Not since you brought me to your tent.
She knows she is not the reason, but
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How I love you.

Kellhus is the reason of course.
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For a time Kellhus had been a troubling figure, but he'd soon become intriguing, someone warm, welcoming and mysterious - a man who promised pleasant surprises.  Then at some point he'd become towering, someone who overshadowed all others - like a noble and indulgent father, or a great king breaking bread with his slaves.  And now, even more so in his absence, he'd become a shining figure.  A beacon of some kind.  Something they must follow, if only because all else was so dark...
What is he? she wanted to say, but looked speechlessly to her lover instead.
To her husband.

Pretty much sums up about three-quarters of the plot of both series :).  And does it give pointers towards series three?

Meanwhile the Holy War is back on the march.
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Like the shadows of truly mountainous clouds, they darkened the plain, great columns of them, theor arms winking like powdered diamond in the sunlight.
"The Holy War," Achamian said, rigid with what could only be awe.
Breathing hurt, or so it seemed.  She glimpsed cohorts of knights, hundreds, even thousands, strong, and great files of infantrymen, as long as entire cities.  She saw baggage-trains, rows of wains no bigger than grains of sand.  And she saw banner after fluttering banner bearing the devices of a thousand Houses, each embroidered with silken Tusks...

... Thousands upon thousands.  With the ponderousness of distant things, they encompassed the nearer reaches of the plain.  They moved, she thought, like wine bleeding through wool.
How could so many be bent to one dreadful purpose? One place.  One city.
Shimeh...

... "Like my dreams," he said.

126
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 7
« on: September 23, 2018, 06:30:00 pm »
The Synthese is flying over the battlefield at Mengedda.
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Who could blame it indulging in nostalgia?  To be here again after millennia, at the place where it had almost happened, where Men and Nonmen had almost flickered out.  Almost.  Alas...
Soon enough.  Soon enough.
It lowered its small human head and studied the patterns the innumerable dead had sketched across the plains, marvelling at the resemblances to certain sigils once prized by its species - back when they could actually be called such.  Genera. Species.  Race.
Inchoroi, the vermin had called them...
...At least the Holy War had prevailed - over the Cishaurim, no less!

Do we know the difference between Inchoroi and Consult - not at this stage, as far as I am aware.
The implications of this brief POV suggest that the No-God is intended to extinguish life (or human and non-man life).  It is inferred that the Inchoroi are less than once they were - or different.  They want the Holy War to succeed.

Achamian dreams of the No-God.
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Secrets... Secrets!  Not even the No-God could build walls against what was forgotten!

What has been forgotten - the Dunyain?, or something else?

Esmi talks to him about Kellhus - when he speaks he seems 'near and far', but he is distracted by the Dreams, which seem to continue whilst he is awake.
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...I know this sounds mad, but I think this place - I think this place recognises me... M-me or Seswatha within me
Is Akka more than one person? - does he therefore have more then one soul?  The possibility of twin-souled individuals is hinted at in TAE.  Are all the Mandate such?  Two souls in one person, one of which is of a dead man - which takes precedence? - is Akka alive or dead?  Echoes of quantum physics (see below)?

Kellhus is ruminating on events.  The Nansur and Ainoni have turned up, meaning the entire Holy War is assembled at Mengedda, and a full Council of the Great Names is called.  Interesting that the Fanim equivalent of Great Names seem to be Grandees - which is from the Spanish grande (or great) - and an interesting comparison with the Consult 'Old Names'.

Many men and women are having nightmares.
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...It was as though the ground had hoarded the final moments of the doomed, and counted and recounted them each night on the ledger of the living...

Kellhus has dreamt nothing - neither have Proyas and Gothyelk.  Clearly some are more susceptible than others.

However, Kellhus is
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...beset with questions, quandaries, and enigmas...
...Events, in other words, had unfolded presiely as Kellhus had predicted.  Precisely.
But the problem was that he hadn't predicted anything.  He'd merely said what he'd needed to say to maximise the probabilities of securing Saubon and destroying Sarcellus.  He'd taken a risk.
It simply had to be coincidence...
What came before determined what came after... This was the basis of the Probability Trance.  This was the principle that made mastering circumstance, be it with word or sword, possible.  This was what made him Dunyain.
One of the Conditioned.
Then the earth began spitting up bones.  Wasn't this proof that the ground answered to the tribulations of men, that it was not indifferent?  And if earth - earth - wasn't indifferent, then what of the future?  Could what came after actually determine what came before?  What if the line running between past and future was neither singular nor straight, but multiple and bent, capable of looping in ways that contradicted the Law of Before and After.
Could he be the Harbinger, as Achamian insisted?

I'm no expert, but I think this is starting to sound like quantum physics - as opposed to Newtonian physics.

Kellhus surveys the assembled.  He has noted eleven skin-spies already.  He notices Sarcellus - a new Sarcellus.

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The original copy had been killed, Kellhus realised, just as he'd hoped.  The position of Sarcellus, however, had not.  His death had gone unwitnessed, and they'd simply replaced him.
Strange that a man could be a position.
Man as a position - relates to the Dunyain Shortest Path, to the Koringhus chapters in TGO, to the concept of momentum of souls (e.g. Scyvendi swazonds, and perhaps elhusioli from TUC) - probably other examples as well.

Saubon is declared Battle-Celebrant.  Conphas is unimpressed.
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..."Fool-Celebrant, I say!  The man who nearly saw all of you killed on these cursed fields! And trust me, this is the one place where you don't want to die..."
..."You know what you did was errant folly"

Kellhus is about to intervene, but Cnaiur beats him to it.
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Stupefied, Conphas stared at the Scylvendi, his fingers kneading his pommel.  He'd been roundly defeated.  And so swiftly...
"Time for another scar on your arms!", someone cried...

Kellhus realises that Conphas could not care less about shame or embarrassment.  He is almost as immune to Dunyain techniques as Cnaiur.  Kellhus also realises Conphas plans some sort of catastrophe for the Holy War.

Conphas is in his tent with Martemus.  Martemus would die to defend the imperial banner (the Concubine) rather than the Tusk, out of habit.  Conphas thinks Kellhus is a Cishaurim plant (which is in very indirect and roundabout way true - Moenghus).  Martemus is instructed to play the part of disciple.

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"It's strange", Conphas said, "but I feel young".
A quote which ends the Chapter.  He is young - why say it.





127
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 6
« on: September 19, 2018, 06:48:42 pm »
Also, looks like many have abandoned you on the path TheCulminatingApe ;)

Not everybody can handle the slog ;)

128
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 6
« on: September 19, 2018, 06:43:42 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
Also, looks like many have abandoned you on the path TheCulminatingApe.
Indeed. I for one feel awful about skating on the reread. I guess I don't have much of an excuse since it's only a chapter a week. I just find myself finding and reading new content that I can't put down, or don't want to.

You don't have to feel bad - the re-read isn't compulsory :)


For what is worth, I have been following and reading all of TheCulminatingApe's posts. They are excellent and detailed. I love the new perspective.
;D 8)

129
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 6
« on: September 16, 2018, 06:22:48 pm »
First battle of the Holy War.  Bakker has his own unique (and awesome) way of writing battle scenes - reminiscent of Tolkien in some respects.

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A warring we have come
A reaving we shall work
And when the day is done,
In our eyes the Gods shall lurk!


It was a song as old as the Ancient North, a song from The Sagas.  And as the Inrithi gave it voice once again, they felt the glory of their past flood through them, brace them.  A thousand voices and one song.  A thousand years and one song!  Never had they felt so rooted, so certain.  The words struck many with the force of revelation.  Tears streamed down sunburned cheeks.  Passions ignited, swept through the ranks, until men roared inarticulately and brandished their swords against the sky.  They were thousands and they were one.

In our eyes the Gods shall lurk!

Should something be read into this?  Many become one - have one voice - through time.

The Inrithi charge, and seem to break the Fanim.  They are deceived by Fanim tactics and are in danger of being broken themselves until rallied by Saubon.  The Fanim throw themselves at the Inrithi line.

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Then, as though stepping out of the blinding sun, the Cishaurim revealed themselves

Saubon sees his own face on a dead man - and holds his own hand.  Kussalt arrives, tells Saubon he (Saubon) has stemmed the breach in the lines.
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Saubon blinked at the blood trickling into his left eye.  An inexplicable cruelty overcame him.  "You're old and slow... Give me your horse!"
Kussalt's look soured.  Old lips tightened.
"This is no place to be thin-skinned, you old fool.  Now give me your fucking horse!
Kussalt jerked, as though something had popped within him, then slumped forward, staggering Saubon with his weight.

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"I would have you know..." the old man wheezed, "how much I hated you..."

Nobody seems to want Saubon.

He decides that it is time to punish the Shrial Knights, and orders them to charge the Cishaurim.
No-one is expecting that - many Knights die in the charge - including 'Sarcellus', but the Cishaurim are destroyed.  Battle continues for the rest of the day - the Inrithe remain unbroken.

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As the sun lowered in the western skies, the Fanim flinched more and more from the Inrithi line, charged with ever greater trepidation.  For they saw demons in the eyes of their idolatrous enemy.

Actual demons?  We can 'see into the outside' from Mengedda.

Then as Skauras sounds the retreat, Proyas arrives.  The entire Inrithi host charges and the Fanim rout and are massacred.

Saubon seeks out Kellhus, but finds Achamian.  Akka tells him about the Battleplain.

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"Topoi are like heights, places where one can see far... But where heights are built with mounds of trauma and suffering.  They are heights that let us see farther than this world... some say into the Outside.  That's why this ground troubles you - you stand perilously high... This is the Battleplain.  What you feel isn't so different from vertigo.

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"Even amongst topoi", he called, "this place is... special." ...
"The soul that encounters Him, " the Schoolman continues, "passes no further"...
"The dead do not escape the Battleplain, my Prince... This place is cursed.  The No-God died here."

Foreshadowing of Golgotterath, which is the topos.

Shades of Tolkien - Battleplain (a direct translation of Dagorlad at the Gates of Mordor), and the Dead Marshes.

130
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 5
« on: September 13, 2018, 08:08:40 pm »
Saubon has marched. Proyas is livid.  Kellhus puts him back in his box.
Cnaiur knows
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He speaks in hidden cues, Cnaiur reminded himself.  He wars against all of us!

Kellhus spells it out to Cnaiur, but then
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And suddenly he realized that he'd actually believed the Dunyain, believed that he had made a mistake.
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"Not everything I say," the Dunyain said, "can be a lie, Scylvendi.  So why do you insist on thinking I deceive you in all things?"
"Because that way," Cnaiur grated, "you deceive me in nothing."

The Fanim have killed Proyas' cousin.  Cnaiur reads the battle scene and muses on the idiocy of the Inrithi.  He decides Skauras has brought all his might to Gedea.

Saubon POV.  He doubts.  The world is against him.
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Dread overcame him, threatened him with despair.  At night, he wept in the secrecy of his tent.  Was this not always the way?  Hadn't the Gods always taunted, frustrated, and humiliated him?  First the fact of his birth - the be the first soul in the body of the seventh son!  Then his father, who'd punished him beyond all reason, beat him for possessing his fire, his cunning!  Then the wars against the Nansurium a few years previous... Mere miles!  So close he could the smear of Momemn's smoke on the horizon!  Only to be afflicted by Ikurei Conphas - to be bested by a stripling!
And now this...

He has 40-50 thousand men plus the 9 thousand Shrial knights, yet is vastly outnumbered.  These are big armies!

He has limited control over his forces - he is only the titular head of the Galeoth.
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...The deference owed to a lackland prince was largely ceremonial; his every command, it seemed, had to run a gauntlet of pride and whimsy

He realises Skauras is trying to prevent him joining up with the Tydonni and the Thunyeri - another 90 thousand.

Kussalt, his groom is with him.
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...But then he'd always been the.  Saubon's earliest childhood memory was of Kussalt scooping him up into his arms and racing into the galleries of Moraor after a bee sting had nearly choked him

A sad man, Coithus Saubon

131
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 4
« on: September 10, 2018, 06:57:08 pm »
He believes much of what Akka has told him about the past

Interesting that the text states that he 'believes' this.  He is isn't as far as we are aware pretending to take Akka seriously in order to condition him for something.
Akka is thought to be going mad by the one person who knows him best, and considered to be a crank by almost everybody else.  What has made the super-logical Dunyain, Kellhus, believe him?
He can see the skin-spies :-[
Sent from my XT1072 using Tapatalk


132
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 4
« on: September 09, 2018, 05:51:42 pm »
He believes much of what Akka has told him about the past

Interesting that the text states that he 'believes' this.  He is isn't as far as we are aware pretending to take Akka seriously in order to condition him for something.
Akka is thought to be going mad by the one person who knows him best, and considered to be a crank by almost everybody else.  What has made the super-logical Dunyain, Kellhus, believe him?

133
The Almanac: PON Edition / ARC: TWP Chapter 8
« on: September 09, 2018, 01:34:47 pm »
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All men are greater than dead men
- AINONI PROVERB

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Every monumental work of the State is measured by cubits.  Every cubit is measured by the length of the Aspect-Emperor's arm.  And the Aspect-Emperor's arm, they say, stands beyond measure.  But I say the Aspect-Emperor's is measured by the length of a cubit, and that all cubits are measured by the works of the State. Not even the All stands beyond measure, for it more than what lies within it, and "more" is a kind of measure. Even the God has His cubits
- IMPHARRAS, PSUKALOGUES

134
The Almanac: PON Edition / ARC: TWP Chapter 7
« on: September 09, 2018, 01:30:36 pm »
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Sleep, when deep enough, is indistinguishable from vigilance
- SORAINAS, THE BOOK OF CIRCLES AND SPIRALS

135
The Almanac: PON Edition / ARC: TWP Chapter 6
« on: September 09, 2018, 01:29:03 pm »
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One sorceror, the ancients say, is worth a thousand warriors in battle and ten thousand sinners in Hell
- DRUSAS ACHAMIAN, THE COMPENDIUM OF THE FIRST HOLY WAR

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When shields become crutches, and swords become canes, some hearts are put to rout.
When wives become plunder, and foes become thanes, all hope has guttered out
- ANONYMOUS, "LAMENT FOR THE CONQUERED"

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