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Messages - Wilshire

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5851
EkyannusIII you may be interested in this link if you havent been through it already.

http://secondapocalypse.forumer.com/dune-frank-herbert-and-tsa-bakker-t1243938.html

5852
The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Why did Moenghus leave Ishual
« on: April 25, 2013, 01:01:54 am »
I'm sure everything got cracked or bent at some point. Yes it could have just been a product of the fight, and the quote just a red herring.

5853
The Warrior-Prophet / Re: Cnaiur and Fate, After Anwurat
« on: April 24, 2013, 03:56:46 pm »
I agree that it is possible, even likely, that there is some intervention. I just feel like some of the speculation is more of seeing what you want, rather than seeing what is there. Too much meaning gleaned from ambiguity. I still say that too much is being attributed to the gods. I could be wrong, of course, but it feels wrong somehow to ignore simple change and happenstance.

I also think that, at this point, the Gods may not be fully awakened to the plight of Kellhus and followers. To the plight of the diminished consult and their wars. I think that we see more gods in TE/WLW because the gods are paying more attention, watching more closely. They may experience time differently, buy everyone procrastinates. Maybe in TE/WLW crisis is close and Gods are getting desperate. They are awakened to the changing times, even they they perhaps always knew it was going to be there.

Or maybe they have always been more active at that time. Maybe they start their interaction farther in the future, and iterativly solve for their desired outcome based on how that intervention changed whatever final future there is. Therefore, they sequentially change the timeline from the front to the back. I don't know if that made any sense :P.

This is hard to me to explain, but the gods exists outside of time, but they are essentially just on their own timeline. So their actions occur outside of Earwa time, but their actions still happen in some kind of sequential order... So then 'when' becomes important, though 'when', is difficult to say since in  Earwa-time-space.


Whatever, that was a clusterfuck of thoughts. My basic point remains the same. Some stuff happening here may be gods, but not all/most of it.

5854
The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Why did Moenghus leave Ishual
« on: April 24, 2013, 03:43:33 pm »
I agree with Triskele, and thats a good point locke. Though, I imagine there are not a lot of elements in a big cave, though the dragon is presumably rather warm, which would likely make things humid, which tends to be bad for paper.

5855
Its not so much time dreams themselves but the timing. Thats what Bakker said, but I still don't know what that means.

on a slightly related but mostly tangential point:
I found, also, that the quotes before each chapter have significant meaning about what goes on in the chapter. Like the changing dreams, the quote by itself is not necessarily always important, but when you combine it with what transpires around the quote (the dream), new meanings can be discerned.

5856
News/Announcements / Re: Welcome to the Second Apocalypse
« on: April 24, 2013, 03:36:04 pm »
Ha ha  I thought the original email was good, though good thing you sent the new one.

5857
Introduce Yourself / Re: Hello
« on: April 24, 2013, 03:33:34 pm »
Always like to see the Old Names as they call you Three Seas folk.

5858
General Misc. / Re: Explaining Bakker
« on: April 23, 2013, 10:21:56 pm »

It's also the binary people seem to default into that either it's proven to them right now, or it's utterly wrong.


This, I think, is an important statement. Its very true in a lot of cases that people tend to see things this way, especially if they feel they are being challenged or confronted, even if its subconcious. Like mentioned earlier, having someone whip out a paper and say "hey do you get this", it would be almost (almost) an insult to themselves if they didnt understand whatever it was (depending on the person, the situation, and the context of the confrontation).


Also, Jorge, I'm glad you chimed in. I think earlier I was trying to say a lot of what you just did. You, however, did a much better job at it and have the credentials to back it up. I was mostly just whistling in the dark :P

5859
Introduce Yourself / Re: Hello (t)here
« on: April 23, 2013, 09:15:16 pm »
Buckle up. Madness is in the process of transferring the accumulated wealth of knowledge over at the old TSA forum. Quite the treasure trove of speculation to be found. More to come I'm sure.

5860
The Warrior-Prophet / Re: Cnaiur and Fate, After Anwurat
« on: April 23, 2013, 08:05:04 pm »
No need to only refer to the Goddess of Fortune as the Whore. Drawing her inclination towards whores makes her seem like Yatwer or (insert other goddess name here).

Anyway, hitting a moving target whilst on horesback seems like a bit of a blessing too doesn't it? Maybe he is being favored by both Fortune and War at the same time? Though that to me is attributing WAY to much to the gods (who IMO have only shown minimal involvement beyond what we have seen from Yatwer).  There is such thing as luck and happenstance and the Wold Conspiring, which all happen outside the wants of Gods. Why force everything that happens to be the will of god? Seems a bit too biased for me to agree with fully.

5861
Well I would say that the 'individual gods' and an 'immanent god' are two entirely different things. The so-called Gods (as they are referred to every time in the appendix) are just power-hungry ciphrang, while the one god, may be something more. It is likely, in my mind, that he could end up fooling one of the hundred, but if there is a One God who has some kind of omnipotence, that would be much more difficult (and far less likely. I would say impossible).

5862
The Warrior-Prophet / Re: Cnaiur and Fate, After Anwurat
« on: April 22, 2013, 07:38:26 pm »
I think there might be more than meets the eye in this passage, but I actually disagree with the section you put in bold being significant. That specific sentence looks to me like a man in desperation, finding similarities between a woman and child that might have looked like someone he knew in the past. Or perhaps finding a kindred spirit in the common flight of a common enemy.

Other sections, like the original passage where the arrow misses, sees like it could be fate. How hard would it be to hit a stationary man on a horse? That said, later, when more arrows miss, I think that could just be difficulties hitting a moving target from horseback and much less likely to be some kind of intervention.

I didn't think that the 'whore of fate' was actually a goddess, more of an idea to describe chance, but turns out I forgot about the Goddess Anagke (The Goddess of fortune, also known as "the Whore of Fate").

5863
There is nothing to say that the gods, or the god, cannot be fooled. Kellhus could have very well convinced the outside agency that he is some kind of higher divinity.

5864
Post WLW I would say 'the horns' could refer to some kind of wake up ritual. Like a bugle call that wakes up the army each morning. But the fact that Golgotterath is always described with some reference to its Horns makes that explanation seem wanting.

5865
News/Announcements / Re: Suggestion Box
« on: April 22, 2013, 05:21:28 pm »
In the advent of the new board I thought it may be worthwhile to consider a slight change. Much of conversation in TUC board, I think, should be moved to the WLW. We as a community have kind of decided that each dedicated board contains the spoilers up to the reading of that book. As such, I think now that TUC is coming soon (hopefully), and since in light of the entire forum move, I think it might be a good idea to move the topics to WLW.

That way we can still discuss the WLW stuff without fear of TUC spoilers, since, by design, TUC board will be discussing the book. It will be a bit awkward for some time after TUC is released, in regards to what is/isn't spoiler tagged. If the conversation where moved to WLW, then this could be somewhat alleviated. Those interested in continuing the conversation about WLW could do so, and those sufficiently worried about spoilers would be able to avoid TUC board until they finished reading.

Hopefully you havent moved to much yet, I wouldn't want to have to do it twice.

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