[Woden]

Soma sensed the stench of 3 in Mimara's urine, IIRC. It's in TWLW somewhere.

I remember something like that.

[Yellow]

I think the child was stillborn because the No God was resurrected in between the two births.

The NG didn't come about until after both births. The "dread" or  whatever it's called wasn't present until *after* the carapace descends from the Horn and after Mimara looks on it with the Eye, so it didn't cause the still birth.

[Monkhound]

I think the child was stillborn because the No God was resurrected in between the two births.

The NG didn't come about until after both births. The "dread" or  whatever it's called wasn't present until *after* the carapace descends from the Horn and after Mimara looks on it with the Eye, so it didn't cause the still birth.

I was tempted to go both ways here, and I was leaning towards the NG being the cause while reading, as it would serve the narrative well. But I have to agree with Yellow.

[Hogman]

I think the child was stillborn because the No God was resurrected in between the two births.

The NG didn't come about until after both births. The "dread" or  whatever it's called wasn't present until *after* the carapace descends from the Horn and after Mimara looks on it with the Eye, so it didn't cause the still birth.

Not necessarily. I assume the horde begins to flee when the No God is reborn. The second birth happens after that (page 426). There could have been a delay before the boding began. Or maybe the horde flees because they sense Ajokli. Who knows?

[Cynical Cat]

The Boding occurs after Mimara gives birth.  She's giving birth prematurely to twins in far from ideal conditions.  That one of them would be stillborn is far from unlikely.

[The Sharmat]

Another guy with a screwed up twin. Hope it doesn't talk to him like the last two.

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

Another guy with a screwed up twin. Hope it doesn't talk to him like the last two.

The odds aren't great for Akka Jr. not to be affected by his dead twin considering the precedent of Celmomas and later Kelmomas, poor kid. Though, seeing as TNG will begin a few weeks after the end of TUC, it seems unlikely we'll see if the whole "twin-souled" thing comes into play.

[Madness]

Considering Bakker's surprise regarding the parallel to Alia on the AMA, I'm going to assume that Akka Jr. isn't pre-born due to the Qirri with the ancestral memories of Nil'giccas and Cu'jara Cinmoi ...

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

Considering Bakker's surprise regarding the parallel to Alia on the AMA, I'm going to assume that Akka Jr. isn't pre-born due to the Qirri with the ancestral memories of Nil'giccas and Cu'jara Cinmoi ...

That's honestly a bit disappointing, I liked how the Dune parallels worked so well with him (qirri could have also caused Mimara's pregnancy to last only 6 months much like Chani's pregnancy in Dune Messiah was "sped up" via spice).

[Madness]

Considering Bakker's surprise regarding the parallel to Alia on the AMA, I'm going to assume that Akka Jr. isn't pre-born due to the Qirri with the ancestral memories of Nil'giccas and Cu'jara Cinmoi ...

That's honestly a bit disappointing, I liked how the Dune parallels worked so well with him (qirri could have also caused Mimara's pregnancy to last only 6 months much like Chani's pregnancy in Dune Messiah was "sped up" via spice).

Indeed. Been wishing for the Qirri pre-born since WLW.

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

Considering Bakker's surprise regarding the parallel to Alia on the AMA, I'm going to assume that Akka Jr. isn't pre-born due to the Qirri with the ancestral memories of Nil'giccas and Cu'jara Cinmoi ...

That's honestly a bit disappointing, I liked how the Dune parallels worked so well with him (qirri could have also caused Mimara's pregnancy to last only 6 months much like Chani's pregnancy in Dune Messiah was "sped up" via spice).

Indeed. Been wishing for the Qirri pre-born since WLW.

Akka Jr. even had a twin and all, it would fit him so well to have him become the Leto II of TSA.

[Madness]

I'd even have enjoyed it going the Abomination Alia route.

[H]

I'll just toss this random sort of thought out in here, because it's not well-formed, or well-researched enough for a thread.

While "wrestling" with my two year old during church, something of the sermon got me thinking (recently was the Assumption of Mary): Mary (not Jesus) is how God enters the world.

What does this mean in the context of tSA though?  It's Esmenet who is mostly the "Mary" analogue in the series, because we know that Mimara is really the prophet, really the "voice" of god.  Not only that, but Esmenet is also that which the No-God enters the world.  And if Kellhus is to be believed, the Darkness that afflicts him.

So what?  But this means that most of the actual Second Apocalypse is predicated on Esmenet.  She is the crux of everything that happens.  She is literally the most important person on Eärwa, really.  I don't think we'll ever know why though.

[profgrape]

  Not only that, but Esmenet is also that which the No-God enters the world.  And if Kellhus is to be believed, the Darkness that afflicts him.

Very interesting thought, H!  That Esmenet is Kellhus' "darkness" because he loves her doesn't quite fit for me.  So tying it to the general darkness that surrounds the NG makes a lot of sense.

[TaoHorror]

Before reading the forums, I took the quickened birth as a result of the qirri and the stillborn yielding the Eye - but the Eye still opens for Mimara after the stillborn birth, so the No-God could've killed it since it hasn't birthed yet. Not sure of the chronology if that makes sense, but I think the No-God "shows" once the trans mutilations of Kel complete.