[TGO Spoilers] The Prince of Hate

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themerchant

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« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2016, 04:13:31 pm »
I hope we get to hear more of his rants. He always thinks one thought too many, who provides thoughts? Onkis.

MSJ

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« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2016, 03:03:28 am »
It's interesting having ended Moenghus that Cnaiur has now spent twenty years obsessing over murdering Kellhus.

I also think it's actually a little heavy-handed (or ham-fisted as Bakker might say) in TGO but the book itself reaffirms my view that Cnaiur basically the only true x-factor - after all, he was *so* unpredictable Kellhus, a Dunyain, couldn't anticipate him. Cnaiur seems to think he plays the Consult to use them as a vehicle so he can murder Anasurimbor Kellhus but they also clearly play him in that Cnaiur seems to have been promised a hand in destroying Ishual (which depending on the future narrative is missed gold - imagine if the Survivor recounting and memories of the Siege and Fall of Ishual had included one mad and scarred human fighting Dunyain amongst the Sranc).

Add to this, the smoking swazond, the most Damned soul... Cnaiur remains the crux of much narrative ambiguity.

Wasn't Cnaüir suprised when he heard that Ishüal had been destroyed? I agree that Cnaüir is using the Consult as his means to kill Kellhus, and that Kellhus has become just as much, if not more of an obsession to Cnaüir. That being said, Cnaüir would stand a chance at killing Kellhus. We learned that very early on in PoN. I know not many will agree with me, but I think Bakker might be set to g Cnaüir up for a bit of a redemptive arc. Also, as always, he has some great lines in this book. Like the one when he slaps All a and says something along the lines of, "This isn't a gathering of old friends, sorcerer.".
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

RedSetter4570

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« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2016, 04:10:46 am »
It seems most of what the Consult knows of the Dunyain is from Cnaiur.  They figured it out early on that he was the one who could shed the most light on this unforeseen threat.  Him being a Scylevendi must have been a miracle to them: an insane genius, with first hand knowledge to the only two known Dunyain in he world, who also worships the dead No-God.  Sounds almost too good to be true.  But, just as Khellhus' power grew over 20 years, Cnaiur's madness surely grew.  A generation of Scylevendi were lost 20 years ago, so those who follows Cnaiur follow him alone, as the one surviving voice who warned of the disaster at Keyuth (sp). 

Will the final battle at Golgotteroth be between Scylvendi horsemen and the half-Sranc remnants of The Great Ordeal (at what point does the Meat turn them toward the No God?)?
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« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2016, 03:54:08 pm »
Wasn't Cnaüir suprised when he heard that Ishüal had been destroyed?

I thought so. I thought it implied that Cnaiur's decision to impart knowledge to the Consult or, you know, gather the Scylvendi en masse for them was predicated on his being a part of the Sack of Ishual.

Will the final battle at Golgotteroth be between Scylvendi horsemen and the half-Sranc remnants of The Great Ordeal (at what point does the Meat turn them toward the No God?)?

Bakker's big on arcs, especially multi-book volume arcs (which really are just arcs from imagined single books). I'd formerly have suggested that we could rely on TWP as a narrative analogue to TAE, as well as TTT mirroring TUC, but with the latest revelation regarding TSTSNBN in the Author Q&A I'll just use TTT/TUC for now.

As per the pieces set in TUC, is Cnaiur the Consult's savior or the Ordeal's? Is he to be the Conphas analogue, the spear in the back of the Ordeal, or the Saubon analogue, the sword which saves the Ordeal from certain destruction? (As arguably Saubon killing Conphas and reclaiming the Zaudunyani Nansur and Imperial Saik is what allows the Holy War to prevail long enough for Kellhus to save the day at Shimeh.)
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RedSetter4570

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« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2016, 05:22:31 am »
Is there a difference between the Consults's savior or the Ordeal's?  At what point does one side start working for the other's

Khellus must have figure that the logistics of the Great Ordeal would fail (he lived through the desert), and they would eat Sranc.  His Imperial Bounty was two-fold: clear the immediate area of Sranc, while determining what effects long term effects of fighting and living in Sranc territory.  Thus, he realized the GO would get as far as the nuke to destroy the horde. 

At which point he gave up the GO, rallied the Zayumi to arms (by probably killing their king, and launching a war against the Three Seas), then having the Scylendi destroy the GO, as they turned against the Gods under the command of a man who now hates Khellus (rape tends to turn folks against the rapist). 

Then, Khellus can teleport in to Golgotteroth, let the world burn, and gain salvation  Either through the Gods or because the world will be destroyed.
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« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2016, 05:10:39 pm »
Is there a difference between the Consults's savior or the Ordeal's?  At what point does one side start working for the other's

This is kind of why Proyas is a poor man's Martemus stand-in right now. Readers seem to forget that there are just normal people in Earwa who wouldn't mind going back to tilling their farm and trying to live a "good life."

Proyas has been broken by Kellhus as Cnaiur was by Moenghus - dissimilar methods, similar outcomes. But Kellhus hasn't yet countermanded the underlying objective. In Proyas' mind, no matter what he's suffered, he's still supposed to be "warring against Golgotterath."

That said, I've maintained for years that Kellhus would still want to master the Tekne and I can envision a TUC which mirrors TTT in that the Ordeal fights at Golgotterath while Kellhus has a rather dramatic conversation with the Consult in the Ark.
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