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Messages - Baztek

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16
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books
« on: August 09, 2017, 10:06:53 pm »
Walter: if you have to assert consciousness is reducible to its material ground, then it isn't really.  "Light in meat" is just another way of referring to the miracle that is meat spontaneously generating such a thing as awareness. It really comes down to perspective.

Science is locked within the horizon of its presumed objectivity; neurological activity =/= consciousness, any more than the harmonics of a Beethoven piece is the music proper.

At best science can only offer a formal definition of consciousness, as an emergent property of such-and-such systems in such-and-such organization (which I never disagreed with) but that isn't, fundamentally, what consciousness actually is: the a priori condition of even being able to have such a concept of objectivity, empiricism, reality, etc. in the first place. That is, the very observer doing the observing in the first place. Anything beyond that is just a structural description that in no way could supersede consciousness in its naked actuality.

Also I've been pretty clear that Buddhists, among others, have already debunked naive notions of the self thousands of years ago.

tleilaxu: you're mistaking the empirical ego with non-self/buddha-nature. The goal is not to kill the self but everything we erroneously assume to be the self. The desire for nothingness is an impediment on the path as much as the desire for some kind of celestial existence. The stock "why don't Buddhists just kill themselves?" argument comes from what can only be a superficial reading of Buddhist doctrine.

I urge you to study these traditions closely if you have any interest in them at all. There's really nothing new science is telling us that a intuition, arduous study, and introspection hasn't already revealed.

17
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books
« on: August 09, 2017, 07:43:22 pm »
I'm pretty sure believing a buddhic enlightenment pill is on the horizon, let alone feasible, qualifies as "optimistic". And self-realization is not and never has been a technological hurdle; cavemen dreaming of flight =/= understanding the true nature of the self through the spiritual ordeal. The former is just a dream, the latter has already been done, it's only science that's been playing catch-up/articulating its nuts-and-bolts.

Believing we're a button press away from solving the inherent antagonism in reality is as pie-in-the-sky as it gets. Praise be to the Church of Science, just take this pill and all your problems will go away! Heaven in a prescription bottle? I doubt it.

18
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books
« on: August 09, 2017, 06:15:35 pm »
You're exactly right, that's my point: the space evacuated by the self and its facticity is freedom itself. Your self-concept you've had all your life goes up in smoke, and what's left is that pure intentionality, pure willing, that self that knows there is no self. The void is freedom. Like okay let's not romanticize it, we're talking going through fucking hell and back here, the empirical ego fights like a cornered lion, but it's possible.

My larger point is I guess the rest of the West needs to catch up to this realization already. Muh void, muh death of values, muh chemicals, got it, let's move on.

19
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books
« on: August 09, 2017, 05:05:50 pm »
Duskweaver's right on the money. Shit, the Buddhist  concept of karmic seeds "watered" by our actions directly foreshadows neuroplasticity. Brain science is just confirming what mystics and ascetics have known for millennia, which is why all this moaning and chest beating over the void of the subject or whatever is just feels so hackneyed and naive, my man it's been known for thousands of years that we are arbitrary aggregates of stuff and your identity is really only the name for your taking an ultimately contingent arrangement of atoms as somehow being your "true" self.

The death of (what we take to be) the self opens up the space for true freedom and is the first step on the path to true spirituality and metaphysics. Bakker and co. are obsessed with poring over the details of the problem, sooner or later you gotta open a window.

20
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books
« on: August 09, 2017, 05:36:53 am »
I swear they did studies that proved most people would only press the button after feeling they've earned it, and that we seek more complex fulfillment than simply press button -> cream in pantaloons

21
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus' Options
« on: August 09, 2017, 02:10:35 am »
It's just so weird for me for Kellhus to get chummy with the closest the Bakkerverse has to a Satan, but at the same time it was only Ajokli who has some presentiment of the No-God threat, right?

And where does Kellhus wanting to save the world come from anyways? What honestly does he care?

Since the dunyain seek the absolute above all, was everything just an elaborate suicide a la Sandman? Explains why Ajokli can't find him, because he's found oblivion/the absolute. definitely an out there theory though

22
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books
« on: August 09, 2017, 12:13:50 am »
Yeah it's kinda weak the Inchoroi are just extra-rapey versions of the already-rapey Progenitors.

I also kinda wish Bakker would distance himself a bit from the doom and gloom nihilist circlejerk blogosphere (like guys like Alien Ecologies, marrone dude with the Landian screeds on nothingness and the grotesque and yadda yadda yadda take a walk outside my bruh) since while the issues he wrestles with are fascinating I'm pretty sure society wouldn't collapse over an orgasm button/novel ways to experience an orgasm. It's an understandable concern for a sex-obsessed culture but it'd get weird looks from members of a culture that don't think the human condition begins and ends with a few spurts of white stuff.

23
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books
« on: August 08, 2017, 10:36:57 pm »
So does shutting the Outside off in Earwa somehow shut it off for the entire universe? Why is that? I do think it's reasonable to assume that because there is sorcery on Earwa that the border between it and the Outside are more porous, therefore making salvation more likely somehow.

I was kinda disappointed the Progenitors are pretty much ultra-hedonistic Eldar who got wind of Slaanesh before the shit hit the fan and made the Inchoroi as essentially Dark Eldar shock troops

24
The Unholy Consult / Re: TUC - Moments that cut to the visceral quick
« on: August 08, 2017, 02:33:50 pm »
Man I really got to give it a Bakker, for being a dyel philosophy major irl there wasn't a second I didn't feel like Cnauir wasn't an absolute force of nature.

Him riding into the whirlwind was fucking savage

25
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« on: August 06, 2017, 09:14:20 pm »
Why wouldn't the Inchoroi become a part of Gierra's, or whoever is the goddess of lust, paradise?

26
General Earwa / Re: Prince of Nothing film
« on: August 06, 2017, 01:02:17 am »
A race of gluttons - "a race with a thousand names for the vagaries of a good burger" lol - would be interesting but wouldn't really dredge as deep as I think he wants to go for. His main point with the Inchoroi is what humans would do once they're able to short circuit the circle of effort -> gratification and skip right to the gratification, and gratification amplified to obscene levels. And the orgasm is more visceral than eating a lot.

The Inchoroi, and the Hundred, represent the boundlessness of hunger and desire, and sexuality is the hunger of hungers, and sexual violence the abyss of abysses. Eating a nigga's body is merely physical consumption, what the Inchoroi et al do is a consumption/violation of the self, the soul itself.

27
General Earwa / Re: Prince of Nothing film
« on: August 05, 2017, 10:55:56 pm »
I think like any good author invested in his work Bakker is right to feel a little bummed no one wants to adapt this shit but it's kinda on him for making black cum smearing rape aliens fucking inextricable from the larger themes at work

28
General Earwa / Prince of Nothing film
« on: August 05, 2017, 09:19:53 pm »
I smoked a fat ass blunt last night and started channeling the PoN trailer in my head pretty much. I was gonna post what I was seeing but that's silly, I can't communicate these images in text. I've got a really good sense for what could grab modern audiences without making the trailer feel like "ha ha this is movie of book I read!", like some corny trailer that reeks of a film adaptation for a niche book series. So here's what I'm thinking for what a PoN film would look like in a perfect world:

Number one thing is it'd need to be visionary, not Game of Thrones: Black Jizz Boogaloo, not some uninspired-looking fantasy film that vanishes from the box office in a week, but something almost 300-esque in its pop culture splash, something genuinely visually groundbreaking, a Kellhus who can communicate the tenderness of a beloved father and the cold menace and gravitas of a genetically engineered supercomputer, a Kellhus whose actor starts off as some no-name schlub and becomes something of a quasi-Christ figure in pop culture himself. An Achamian who is pathetic and endearing not in spite of it, but because of it. An Esmenet with arthouse muse-tier levels of beauty.


The pitch black doom and gloom needs to go. Bakker's world feels the most real when the characters are joking, when we hear Three Seas idioms or learn about some crazy shit that happened in camp because of an Ainoni who did this or a Conriyan who did that. Number one thing, again, is grandeur, something like Ron Fricke's Baraka/Samsara films, not just sweeping shots of the New Zealand countryside like in LOTR but an otherworldliness that can only really be communicated by striking use of color, sunsets, sunrises, exotic figures in exotic dress, shots of armies marching across Malick-esque vistas of desolation and beauty.

I think you can only really sell the beauty, the weight of a world like Earwa if you keep it grounded in the reality of its evil. The horror needs to be sharp, difficult, HR Giger-esque, but very restricted in application: you need to have audiences reeling from just the mention of the Consult, but not hordes of big-dicked white-skinned dog men bearing down on armies. I have no fucking idea how you could sell the Sranc, the Inchoroi and the Bashrag et al, sure, but something would have to be done about those turgid horns.

But I'm just bullshitting, you guys ever think about this shit


29
Think Akka will perfect magic somehow that'd fucking swell

30
Wait true dreams no-god wasn't killed by the heron spear excuse me

It just never ends with bakker man.

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