The Second Apocalypse
Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The Unholy Consult => Topic started by: ThoughtsOfThelli on July 14, 2017, 03:28:27 pm
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These don't really fit into the Errata (one of these is probably a retcon) so here are two little nitpicky things that I noticed:
-Proyas' father's name seems to have changed, he is referred to as Onoyas in this book while before he was Eukernas II (admittedly, I had to look it up because I only knew it was different and didn't recall the actual previous name). Was this a retcon?
-Mimara's pregnancy only seems to have lasted for 6 months. I know, I know, I'm being annoying about timelines and dates again, but hear me out. When I first read TAE, I was wondering when Mimara would give birth (trying to figure out the length of time TUC would span). The chapter where she and Achamian have sex has a date of early spring, 4132. She ends up giving birth in early autumn of the same year.
You might say we don't know if seasons in Eärwa last 3 months, but...in PON, Serwë got pregnant in the spring of 4111 and gave birth in winter of that year, thus it would seem seasons do indeed last ~3 months in Eärwa.
So either this is a timeline mistake (future retcon?) or that baby really lucked out in being continuously exposed to qirri while in the womb and came out with the development a full-term baby would have. ;) (Or, crackpot thought, Akka really isn't the father after all.)
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There are plenty of worse mistakes, not sure why you'd feel bad pointing them out.
As for Proyas, sounds like a pretty bad error.
Mimara, you bring up a lot of viable possibilities. First, I'd like to point out there were timeline issues in TGO, and this might have partially contributed to this weird 6 month pregnancy. But otherwise, my it-was-done-on-purpose explanation is qirri. Its a hell of a drug. That child will be all kinds of messed up.
So for me, the reality is that its likely a timeline mistake, but I'm happy to hand-waive it with qirri, and the father being someone else is fun for speculation :) .
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There are plenty of worse mistakes, not sure why you'd feel bad pointing them out.
As for Proyas, sounds like a pretty bad error.
Mimara, you bring up a lot of viable possibilities. First, I'd like to point out there were timeline issues in TGO, and this might have partially contributed to this weird 6 month pregnancy. But otherwise, my it-was-done-on-purpose explanation is qirri. Its a hell of a drug. That child will be all kinds of messed up.
So for me, the reality is that its likely a timeline mistake, but I'm happy to hand-waive it with qirri, and the father being someone else is fun for speculation :) .
It's not like I feel bad exactly, I just figured me pointing out ages/timeline inconsistencies could get annoying quickly. ;)
Proyas' father seems like it's going to end up as a retcon, his mother was also named in this book but I don't remember her being named before, so it's not as glaring.
Qirri is probably the only valid in-world explanation if Bakker intended for Mimara's pregnancy to only last 6 months, who knows what effects it could have on a developing fetus? And now I also wonder if the other twin's stillbirth might have something to do with the effects of qirri as well. Probably not, though, since there are other explanations (No-God, or the whole "women with the Judging Eye give birth to stillborn children" thing).
I know this will never be the case, but I would laugh so hard if we got to the next series and Mimara's son just happened to be the spitting image of Imhailas. :P
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At one point, doesn't Mimara remark that it is indeed "too early" for the baby to be coming?
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Someone does, I thought it was Achiaman. Also even though Mimara was sold to pimps at an early age and has some specific knowledge in certain areas, is it possible that she just got the time of impregnation wrong?
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At one point, doesn't Mimara remark that it is indeed "too early" for the baby to be coming?
Someone does, I thought it was Achiaman.
Yes, but we don't know exactly how early she thought it was - if they knew that the babies were coming three months or so earlier than expected, then there would have never have been a chance of them surviving outside the womb for long (not without modern medicine), so I expect they'd be much more dismayed by having Mimara go into labour right then and more surprised when the first twin was born apparently healthy.
Also even though Mimara was sold to pimps at an early age and has some specific knowledge in certain areas, is it possible that she just got the time of impregnation wrong?
It's possible that she was further along than she thought she was, but three months seems too big a difference. (That would, however, lend credence to the theory that Akka wasn't the father...)
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I've had the 'not Akka's baby' thought a couple of times. Imhailas seems like the obvious other possibility.
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I've had the 'not Akka's baby' thought a couple of times. Imhailas seems like the obvious other possibility.
Amusingly enough, Mimara thinks that Akka was really the only option as to the father of her unborn children was after she first learned she was pregnant. However, I went back and looked - in TJE Mimara is said to have left the Andiamine Heights three months before meeting up with Akka. Which means that the dates would match for a normal 9-month pregnancy if Imhailas was the father. :)
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At one point, doesn't Mimara remark that it is indeed "too early" for the baby to be coming?
Welll, Qirri and traveliing the whole of Earwa might have a little to do with a premature birth...
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I've had the 'not Akka's baby' thought a couple of times. Imhailas seems like the obvious other possibility.
Amusingly enough, Mimara thinks that Akka was really the only option as to the father of her unborn children was after she first learned she was pregnant. However, I went back and looked - in TJE Mimara is said to have left the Andiamine Heights three months before meeting up with Akka. Which means that the dates would match for a normal 9-month pregnancy if Imhailas was the father. :)
Now we're cooking! But why do you think specifically Imhailas? I can't remember any interaction between them.
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Now we're cooking! But why do you think specifically Imhailas? I can't remember any interaction between them.
Well, we have this from WLW:
There are only three occasions she can think of that would make the accursed creature true. There was the darling body-slave -little more than a boy- who attended to her ledgers before her flight. As absurd as it is, she owns estates across the Three Seas -as does everyone in the Imperial Family. There was Imhailas, the vain Captain of the Eöthic guard, who helped her escape in exchange for a taste of her peach.
Of course, could still be the slave, but Imhailas is a more interesting possibility, especially given that, like Akka, he was Esmenet's lover at some point.
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Nersei Eukernas II: Father of Nersei Proyas and King of Conriya.
Nersei Onoyas II: King of Conriya who first forged the alliance between the School of Mandate and House Nersei.
Nersei Proyas: The Crown Prince of Conriya.
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Nersei Eukernas II: Father of Nersei Proyas and King of Conriya.
Nersei Onoyas II: King of Conriya who first forged the alliance between the School of Mandate and House Nersei.
Nersei Proyas: The Crown Prince of Conriya.
Yes, that's the information we had from before, but on page 186 (TUC paperback):
Not so high above, the bound form of Proyas, blessed son of Queen Thaila and King Onoyas, swayed on slow revolution...
There's another mention of Proyas' father as Onoyas in TUC, but I can't find it right now.
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Nersei Eukernas II: Father of Nersei Proyas and King of Conriya.
Nersei Onoyas II: King of Conriya who first forged the alliance between the School of Mandate and House Nersei.
Nersei Proyas: The Crown Prince of Conriya.
Yes, that's the information we had from before, but on page 186 (TUC paperback):
Not so high above, the bound form of Proyas, blessed son of Queen Thaila and King Onoyas, swayed on slow revolution...
There's another mention of Proyas' father as Onoyas in TUC, but I can't find it right now.
The other mention, when Proyas is hanging, page 178 (ebook):
On his deathbed, proud Onoyas had called for his son knowing he would not come ... And yes, even hoping ... Because it mattered not at all, what a life makes of a soul.
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The other mention, when Proyas is hanging, page 178 (ebook):
On his deathbed, proud Onoyas had called for his son knowing he would not come ... And yes, even hoping ... Because it mattered not at all, what a life makes of a soul.
Thank you, I knew it was there somewhere. :)
So, yes, Proyas' father's name does seem to have been retconned to Onoyas (unless it's later stated to be a mistake). There is no entry for him in the TUC glossary either as Eukernas or as Onoyas (only the historical Onoyas is there) so it's still unclear.
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If Imhalias was the father the baby would have been Norsirai, and I am pretty sure Akka would have remarked on that. Maybe Bakker just wanted him to be born before the NG rises.
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Yes, that's the information we had from before, but on page 186 (TUC paperback):
Yep, I've just done a little part of quoting these guys' statuses without conjectures.
Now is conjectures' time! :з
It's a mistake, it's a retcon, it's a different timeline (poor excuse or great plot layer, lol).
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If Imhalias was the father the baby would have been Norsirai, and I am pretty sure Akka would have remarked on that. Maybe Bakker just wanted him to be born before the NG rises.
Deep down, I do believe Akka is the baby's father, but I am having way too much fun with the "Imhailas Jr." theory not to keep trying to find more evidence in its favour. :) The 6-month-long pregnancy, timeline error or qirri side effect, just lends itself to it.
Can't tell that much of a baby's future appearance by its look at birth, anyway (Caucasian babies can appear a bit darker-skinned at birth/shortly after than they will be later on in real life, I remember that was the case with my younger brother). Or maybe the baby took after Mimara (even though most characters look like their fathers in this series...) and is paler than Achamian, while still darker-skinned than a Norsirai would be. :P
He definitely had to be born before the No-God rose, and narrowly avoided being stillborn like his twin considering the short length of time between his birth and the No-God rising. He was lucky the qirri apparently has the side effect of helping with fetal lung development, among other things. ;)
Yep, I've just done a little part of quoting these guys' statuses without conjectures.
Now is conjectures' time! :з
It's a mistake, it's a retcon, it's a different timeline (poor excuse or great plot layer, lol).
Poor Proyas, as if he didn't have enough problems, he is trying to reconcile memories from two different timelines. :) I like that theory.
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You know, there is the pre-born Dune precedent ;).
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You know, there is the pre-born Dune precedent ;).
For Proyas? Maybe he is the Kwisatz Haderach (in another timeline). ;)
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Oh, sorry, I'm not paying enough attention. Maybe I'm in the wrong thread. I was referring to Akka Jr. (regardless of actual paternity).
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Oh, sorry, I'm not paying enough attention. Maybe I'm in the wrong thread. I was referring to Akka Jr. (regardless of actual paternity).
Ah, as he was exposed to qirri in the womb as compared to spice? Makes sense. :) While I don't think he will have memories of ancestors, I am almost certain that he will end up being affected in some way (besides the whole coming to term in six months thing...and if I remember correctly, wasn't there also a shortened pregnancy in Dune Messiah, due to the effects of the spice?), maybe in his future use of sorcery?
And speaking of that, is "Akka Jr." (if actually Akka's son) the only confirmed example we have in the series (historical figures included, though I can't remember any) of someone whose parents are both of the Few?
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These don't really fit into the Errata (one of these is probably a retcon) so here are two little nitpicky things that I noticed:
-Proyas' father's name seems to have changed, he is referred to as Onoyas in this book while before he was Eukernas II (admittedly, I had to look it up because I only knew it was different and didn't recall the actual previous name). Was this a retcon?
-Mimara's pregnancy only seems to have lasted for 6 months. I know, I know, I'm being annoying about timelines and dates again, but hear me out. When I first read TAE, I was wondering when Mimara would give birth (trying to figure out the length of time TUC would span). The chapter where she and Achamian have sex has a date of early spring, 4132. She ends up giving birth in early autumn of the same year.
You might say we don't know if seasons in Eärwa last 3 months, but...in PON, Serwë got pregnant in the spring of 4111 and gave birth in winter of that year, thus it would seem seasons do indeed last ~3 months in Eärwa.
So either this is a timeline mistake (future retcon?) or that baby really lucked out in being continuously exposed to qirri while in the womb and came out with the development a full-term baby would have. ;) (Or, crackpot thought, Akka really isn't the father after all.)
When Mimara revealled she was pregnant I always thought that the father was Khellus...
There is a passage in TJE that made me think this. Will look it up at some point.
Also if Esmenet was such a viable breeding partner her daughter would have similar chances to be one as well.
"waste not, want not..."
Truth Shines...
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When Mimara revealled she was pregnant I always thought that the father was Khellus...
There is a passage in TJE that made me think this. Will look it up at some point.
Also if Esmenet was such a viable breeding partner her daughter would have similar chances to be one as well.
"waste not, want not..."
Truth Shines...
She claimed Kellhus was her child's father to the Captain, but that doesn't seem to have been a viable possibility. Timing aside, there's nothing in the text to suggest that Kellhus and Mimara ever had sex.
Still an interesting thought, and it is true that a daughter of Esmenet could likely have higher chances of giving birth to a half-Dûnyain child than any random worldborn woman.
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Mimara hardly saw Kellhus during her stay in the palace. And I am also pretty sure she would have reamarked on that :P
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I thought the reasonn Esmenet could bear Kellhus's children was her intellect. Mimara isn't dumb, but I don't know if she has her mother's intellect. And why would Kellhus impregnate Mimara and just let her go?
It'd be somewhat hilarious, though, if Achamian ended up raising Kellhus's son as his own. And the relationship between these people would get rather soap opera-y.
Achmian and Esmenet are in love, but Kellhus ends up stealing Esmenet while Achamian has an affair with Esmenet's daughter Mimara, who is impregnated by Kellhus without him realizing that the child is not his
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I thought the reasonn Esmenet could bear Kellhus's children was her intellect. Mimara isn't dumb, but I don't know if she has her mother's intellect. And why would Kellhus impregnate Mimara and just let her go?
It'd be somewhat hilarious, though, if Achamian ended up raising Kellhus's son as his own. And the relationship between these people would get rather soap opera-y.
Achmian and Esmenet are in love, but Kellhus ends up stealing Esmenet while Achamian has an affair with Esmenet's daughter Mimara, who is impregnated by Kellhus without him realizing that the child is not his
One of the things that happens throughout the narrative is the parallels we see with the Now and the Past.
Some of Akka's "dreams" as Seswatha's reveal or hint that he is in fact the father of Anasûrimbor Nau-Cayûti? And somewhere also say that Anasûrimbor Nau-Cayûti had a stillborn twin?
Khellus did not let Mimara go imo. For me the answer lies at the beginning of TJE. The fact that some imperial official approached the Skin Eaters always made me think that he sent or influence Mimara to seek Akka to take their own journey shadowing the great ordeal.
Always thought they would play a greater role at the End.
Of course the fact that Mimara and Akka had so little influence in the narrative on TUC probably means I am wrong. But that is what I always believed.
Truth Shines...
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When Mimara revealled she was pregnant I always thought that the father was Khellus...
There is a passage in TJE that made me think this. Will look it up at some point.
Also if Esmenet was such a viable breeding partner her daughter would have similar chances to be one as well.
"waste not, want not..."
Truth Shines...
She claimed Kellhus was her child's father to the Captain, but that doesn't seem to have been a viable possibility. Timing aside, there's nothing in the text to suggest that Kellhus and Mimara ever had sex.
Still an interesting thought, and it is true that a daughter of Esmenet could likely have higher chances of giving birth to a half-Dûnyain child than any random worldborn woman.
That was not the passage that made me think she was carrying Khellus baby. ;-) Its something it happens when she is trying to convince Akka to teach her just before their journey begins. I will look it up one of these days.
Truth Shines...
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I thought the reasonn Esmenet could bear Kellhus's children was her intellect. Mimara isn't dumb, but I don't know if she has her mother's intellect. And why would Kellhus impregnate Mimara and just let her go?
It'd be somewhat hilarious, though, if Achamian ended up raising Kellhus's son as his own. And the relationship between these people would get rather soap opera-y.
Achmian and Esmenet are in love, but Kellhus ends up stealing Esmenet while Achamian has an affair with Esmenet's daughter Mimara, who is impregnated by Kellhus without him realizing that the child is not his
Also I think that intellect had nothing to do with breading Dûnyains at least not from the mothers prespective. After all don't forget the state of the Whale mothers at Ishaul. ;) Hardly a picture of intelectual beings been chained for breeding purposes only...
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Also I think that intellect had nothing to do with breading Dûnyains at least not from the mothers prespective. After all don't forget the state of the Whale mothers at Ishaul. ;) Hardly a picture of intelectual beings been chained for breeding purposes only...
I think intellect was necessary for worldborn partners as it made it more likely (somehow...these Dûnyain genetics are so strange) that they would produce viable children. It's stated in the text that Esmenet found women "of native intellect" (I haven't looked it up but I think that was the phrase used) to be Kellhus' concubines after she no longer wanted to have more of his children.
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Also I think that intellect had nothing to do with breading Dûnyains at least not from the mothers prespective. After all don't forget the state of the Whale mothers at Ishaul. ;) Hardly a picture of intelectual beings been chained for breeding purposes only...
I think intellect was necessary for worldborn partners as it made it more likely (somehow...these Dûnyain genetics are so strange) that they would produce viable children. It's stated in the text that Esmenet found women "of native intellect" (I haven't looked it up but I think that was the phrase used) to be Kellhus' concubines after she no longer wanted to have more of his children.
Whether or not that's true, that it actually worked that way, or that Kellhus just got lucky, is all up for debate I suppose.
Its mentioned many times, several by Kellhus himself, that he picked Esmenet as a likely breeding vessel due to her intellect. The 'native intellect' is also mentioned a few times.
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Its mentioned many times, several by Kellhus himself, that he picked Esmenet as a likely breeding vessel due to her intellect. The 'native intellect' is also mentioned a few times.
While I am sure that Kellhus believes that is a good way to discover breeding potential, I doubt if it is intellect at the foremost of why Esmenet can carry his children and none other can.
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I thought the reasonn Esmenet could bear Kellhus's children was her intellect. Mimara isn't dumb, but I don't know if she has her mother's intellect. And why would Kellhus impregnate Mimara and just let her go?
It'd be somewhat hilarious, though, if Achamian ended up raising Kellhus's son as his own. And the relationship between these people would get rather soap opera-y.
Achmian and Esmenet are in love, but Kellhus ends up stealing Esmenet while Achamian has an affair with Esmenet's daughter Mimara, who is impregnated by Kellhus without him realizing that the child is not his
Also I think that intellect had nothing to do with breading Dûnyains at least not from the mothers prespective. After all don't forget the state of the Whale mothers at Ishaul. ;) Hardly a picture of intelectual beings been chained for breeding purposes only...
I think the Mothers, the initial ones, were on equal terms with the male Dunyain, but over time, the Dunyain (women being willing too, I imagine) reduced them to their biggest use - to create the next generations, so the Mothers were turned into breeding tanks.
But yes, I think it's pretty clearly stated that Kellhus chose Esmenet for her intellect.
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Its mentioned many times, several by Kellhus himself, that he picked Esmenet as a likely breeding vessel due to her intellect. The 'native intellect' is also mentioned a few times.
While I am sure that Kellhus believes that is a good way to discover breeding potential, I doubt if it is intellect at the foremost of why Esmenet can carry his children and none other can.
I agree, I always thought that the intellect thing was one of the conditions required for a worldborn woman to be able to bear half-Dûnyain children. It makes them more likely to succeed than those without that "native intellect", but there's something more.
In another thread I mentioned Maithanet's mother and Cnaiür's mother, both of which were also able to give birth to non-deformed half-Dûnyain children (mostly guesswork on Cnaiür's mother here, but her child seems to have been killed just because she was Moënghus', there's nothing to make us think that she might have been deformed like the "nameless ones"). If we knew more about both of these women, maybe we could figure out something that both of them and Esmenet had in common?
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Its mentioned many times, several by Kellhus himself, that he picked Esmenet as a likely breeding vessel due to her intellect. The 'native intellect' is also mentioned a few times.
While I am sure that Kellhus believes that is a good way to discover breeding potential, I doubt if it is intellect at the foremost of why Esmenet can carry his children and none other can.
I agree, I always thought that the intellect thing was one of the conditions required for a worldborn woman to be able to bear half-Dûnyain children. It makes them more likely to succeed than those without that "native intellect", but there's something more.
In another thread I mentioned Maithanet's mother and Cnaiür's mother, both of which were also able to give birth to non-deformed half-Dûnyain children (mostly guesswork on Cnaiür's mother here, but her child seems to have been killed just because she was Moënghus', there's nothing to make us think that she might have been deformed like the "nameless ones"). If we knew more about both of these women, maybe we could figure out something that both of them and Esmenet had in common?
Yup, that's probably the case, but we don't have any information, and at this point, anyone expecting some kind of future text revelations isn't paying attention.
I always suspected that something that creats the difficulty has to do with the Nonman blood, and that the dunyain genetics program was selecting for those genes. So to me, perhaps there's some nonman genetic stock in the at-large population that smooths conception for dunayin-worldborn hybrids.
No idea about Cnaiur's mother, but she gave birth to Cnaiur, and he's arguably one of, if not the, most intelligent worldborn to exist in recent history. So, one might expect his mother to have favorable 'native intelligence', or whatever, for good hybrind dunyain breeding stock.
As for Esmenet and Maithanet's mother, I would guess that they have, somewhere in their ancestory, the bastard child of an Anasurimbor, and therefore, that nonmen genetic stock. Often people describe those with interesting or different persectives than themselves as 'intelligent'. We know the Nonmen have an alien POV regarding many things, perhaps this is what gives the illusion and or vague descriptor of 'intelligence' when describing those exhibiting similar alien thought patterns.
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Yup, that's probably the case, but we don't have any information, and at this point, anyone expecting some kind of future text revelations isn't paying attention.
I always suspected that something that creats the difficulty has to do with the Nonman blood, and that the dunyain genetics program was selecting for those genes. So to me, perhaps there's some nonman genetic stock in the at-large population that smooths conception for dunayin-worldborn hybrids.
No idea about Cnaiur's mother, but she gave birth to Cnaiur, and he's arguably one of, if not the, most intelligent worldborn to exist in recent history. So, one might expect his mother to have favorable 'native intelligence', or whatever, for good hybrind dunyain breeding stock.
As for Esmenet and Maithanet's mother, I would guess that they have, somewhere in their ancestory, the bastard child of an Anasurimbor, and therefore, that nonmen genetic stock. Often people describe those with interesting or different persectives than themselves as 'intelligent'. We know the Nonmen have an alien POV regarding many things, perhaps this is what gives the illusion and or vague descriptor of 'intelligence' when describing those exhibiting similar alien thought patterns.
That could be the case, but I keep thinking that, even if descended from several Nonman/Man hybrid lines, those genes would be very diluted by this point. Then again, this is a fantasy world we're talking about, and it may not matter how many generations removed they are from one or more Nonman ancestors, that blood will always have an effect. (Couldn't Harapior sense the Nonman ancestry of Serwa, too? And that would - as far as we know - come only from Omindalea's son, who lived some 3000+ years prior...)
It definitely would explain why these women are apparently so rare in the general population, and why Kellhus could only find Esmenet despite being able to pick any woman he wanted as one of his concubines.
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Its by no means bulletproof. I start hand-waiving at about this point, and justify that Bakker is not a geneticist, but a philosopher. Beyond about this point you have to start making a lot of assumptions about, yes, genetics, heritability, dominance, there are also some really interesting genes that do little else but kill the offspring if not expressed properly in the offspring making it essentially impossible to remove it form the gene pool. Or we could go down the path of 'alien genetics' and who knows where we'd end up lol.
I'm happy to speculate more :) but I think the in-text worldbuilding/backup ends at about this point. And, perhaps, best to make another topic for it.
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Genetics in this series works the same way incest does for Targaryens in ASOIAF. There is a mechanic there, but it's not a realistic one; just hush and let the fantasy genre flow over you.
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Its by no means bulletproof. I start hand-waiving at about this point, and justify that Bakker is not a geneticist, but a philosopher. Beyond about this point you have to start making a lot of assumptions about, yes, genetics, heritability, dominance, there are also some really interesting genes that do little else but kill the offspring if not expressed properly in the offspring making it essentially impossible to remove it form the gene pool. Or we could go down the path of 'alien genetics' and who knows where we'd end up lol.
I'm happy to speculate more :) but I think the in-text worldbuilding/backup ends at about this point. And, perhaps, best to make another topic for it.
I might just go and create a brand new thread, those strange Dûnyain genetics can be really intriguing, even if we can't expect to behave like real life human genetics. ;) (I've always wondered if there's some meaning behind the deformed child of Kellhus and Esmenet having eight arms, not really a common thing in real life, but I might just be falling into the fallacy of applying real life genetics to this again).
Genetics in this series works the same way incest does for Targaryens in ASOIAF. There is a mechanic there, but it's not a realistic one; just hush and let the fantasy genre flow over you.
I know, I really shouldn't be trying to make sense of this using a real life perspective, but it's easy to fall into this trap be it with "Martin genetics" or "Bakker genetics".
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Yeah no-one questions speaking and thinking two other things at once can make you teleport.
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That could be the case, but I keep thinking that, even if descended from several Nonman/Man hybrid lines, those genes would be very diluted by this point. Then again, this is a fantasy world we're talking about, and it may not matter how many generations removed they are from one or more Nonman ancestors, that blood will always have an effect. (Couldn't Harapior sense the Nonman ancestry of Serwa, too? And that would - as far as we know - come only from Omindalea's son, who lived some 3000+ years prior...)
It definitely would explain why these women are apparently so rare in the general population, and why Kellhus could only find Esmenet despite being able to pick any woman he wanted as one of his concubines.
It might be genetic, though it's quite far-fetched, since women carry mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), which is passed unchanged (save some random mutation now and then) from mother to daughter, never from the father. So it might be that some mtDNA strains are more compatible with Dunyain seed. It would be even better if we had any knowledge of a Nonman woman (^^) ever bearing a daughter conceived with a Man man.
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Thoughtsofthelli moved the genetics conversaiton to a new topic :)
http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2233.0