The Second Apocalypse
Miscellaneous Chatter => Literature => Topic started by: mrganondorf on February 18, 2014, 05:04:01 pm
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I've heard that Bakker fans should like Erickson books, so I tried it. I liked the first one, rich world, big things going on, lots left to tell. The ending came sudden and contrived but I was ready for book 2. Could not finish. Found the characters blank and their motivations insubstantial or unbelievable. But I still hear how awesome Erickson is! I'm going to give him another try because I feel like I must be wrong.
I don't mind if a book is demanding, heck that's why I like Bakker! Where the fuck is a nice full description of a sranc? Does it ever happen or is the reader just supposed to pick up a little here and there forever??? I don't mind. Like it. Like 'hard' books. Like Gormenghast, whatever. Like 'easy' books. Like Harry Potter. WHY CAN'T I LIKE MALZAHN??????
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The third book a memory of ice , is in my opinion the best book in the series. the jumping about is a bit weird, the 3rd book follows on from the 1st and 4th one from the 2nd. With the 5th one taking place before any of the others in another continent, the 5th book is my 2nd favourite one.
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So, should I be patient or read out of order? Book 3 first?
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I've said it here before, but I also gave up on Erikson. Halfway through book 6 I put it down and never looked back. Maybe I'm too dumb to get it, or just didn't have the patience for the Stephen King-like epic droning. I don't know. I do know Kruppe is one of the worst characters I've ever read (imo), and that may have put me off. So, I guess I also don't get Erikson, which is ironic since one of the reasons I picked up Bakker so long ago was his (Erikson's) endorsement of TDTCB. Go figure.
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I am also an Ericson quitter. I just could not commit to something as enormously huge as this. It would have to be insanely good or the word of god, if I am going to commit to something like this. I am not referring to the bible, but the factual, proven, Dawkins style, word of God. Ten books, 1000 pages each, where every word guaranteed an orgasm would be worth the commitment. Sadly Ericson was only good + IMO.
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So, should I be patient or read out of order? Book 3 first?
Best to read in order as there is some overlap. I'm not a huge fan of his but memories of ice is a good book imo.
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So, should I be patient or read out of order? Book 3 first?
Best to read in order as there is some overlap. I'm not a huge fan of his but memories of ice is a good book imo.
I agree, I liked Memories of Ice, and also Deadhouse Gates. Quick Ben and Kalam are two of my favorite characters still. Bauchelain and Korbal Broach were kick-ass in MoI.
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I had the biggest bookcrush on Sorry back in the day
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Huh...weird. It seems i am quite alone on this forum with my appreciation for Erikson (<- that is how he is spelled, by the way ;) ). He is complex, epic and can write. His series is, so far, overall, my favourite series. It has its weaknesses (which series does not, after all) but the sheer scope and complexity is epic.
If you are into Bakker because of his philosophies, then Erikson might not be to your taste (his is quite different...more positive, all in all)...but if you are into TSA because of scope, complexity and/or worldbuilding...i can not see how you can not like Erikson.
He does make you work though...sometimes work hard. In some way harder than Bakker (not because he is more intellectual or anything...just because his storytelling is even more...avaricious ... with details than Scott's)...but it is so worth it. Well imo, anyway.
I agree that Book 3 is the best of the series. I loved GotM and also had some difficulties with book 2.
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I wouldn't say you're alone, Kellais. I definitely appreciate Erikson. As you said, the world-building is astounding. And ten Bible-length books is no mean feat. And as I mentioned, some of the characters are still in my mind years after I stopped reading. I just ended up not liking it very much. :-\ I claim full responsibility for my decision to put it down before the end. lol
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I'm intimidated by this series, but I definitely intend on starting it someday. I suspect it'll be after I go a long while without reading ANY fantasy, and then one day I'll get the itch and be like, "Yup, it's time."
That's how I imagine it anyway.
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Kellais, sorry for that rather stupid post earlier :P. I actually loved the first book, but the second was a drag IMO, and what I mean by to much of a commitment, is that I have so much to read. Fiction and non-fiction. It would take me over a year(at least) to finish all ten books, and it just wasn`t mindblowing enough for me to spend so much time on.
I have huge respect for the effort Erikson has put in on this, and maybe I will catch up with him later on ;)
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But I still hear how awesome Erickson is!
I imagine some people must feel like way about Bakker.
but I was ready for book 2. Could not finish.
Book 2 is one of my favorite fantasy sequences ever.
WHY CAN'T I LIKE MALZAHN??????
I think this thread is hilarious. Everyone noting when they dropped out.
With the 5th one taking place before any of the others in another continent, the 5th book is my 2nd favourite one.
I don't know why, themerchant, but this is where Erikson lost me... Midnight Tides. I so want to go back one day.
I am not referring to the bible, but the factual, proven, Dawkins style, word of God. Ten books, 1000 pages each, where every word guaranteed an orgasm would be worth the commitment.
What the fuck. That is amazing. Dawkins argued that God would ultimately be hedonistic, though? What is up with him?
I wouldn't say you're alone, Kellais. I definitely appreciate Erikson. As you said, the world-building is astounding. And ten Bible-length books is no mean feat. And as I mentioned, some of the characters are still in my mind years after I stopped reading. I just ended up not liking it very much. :-\ I claim full responsibility for my decision to put it down before the end. lol
These are my thoughts. Bold especially so.
"Yup, it's time."
That's how I imagine it anyway.
And we never heard from FB again ;).
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I recently finished the first book, and I'm about 50 pages into Deadhouse Gates now.
I did not love the first book, but I was decently entertained, and just about everyone says it gets better with the next few books, so I felt like going on. But I wonder about it too as I have a hard time envisioning not getting burned out with the size of the whole thing.
My biggest criticism of book 1 is the virtually non-existent characterization.
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DG is still one of my favorite fantasy books ever on its own.
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DG is still one of my favorite fantasy books ever on its own.
Same here. Chain of Dogs, son!
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Lol. Indeed ;D.
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I think this thread is hilarious. Everyone noting when they dropped out.
I guess I'm the only one who dropped out halfway through through the third book then...
I thought the first two books were enjoyable, but the whole premise of having gods, Gods, elder gods, ascendants, lords, demons, demon lords, bonecasters and whatnot all with varying degrees of power seemed a bit silly tbh. It was also frustrating because every time I thought I learned who the final boss is going to be it turns there is oh a demon final boss on the next level who has ever more power than the last one. But despite that I soldiered on until at one point through the 3rd book where I said fuck it.
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I think this thread is hilarious. Everyone noting when they dropped out.
I guess I'm the only one who dropped out halfway through through the third book then...
I thought the first two books were enjoyable, but the whole premise of having gods, Gods, elder gods, ascendants, lords, demons, demon lords, bonecasters and whatnot all with varying degrees of power seemed a bit silly tbh. It was also frustrating because every time I thought I learned who the final boss is going to be it turns there is oh a demon final boss on the next level who has ever more power than the last one. But despite that I soldiered on until at one point through the 3rd book where I said fuck it.
As someone who has finished the main series, your assessment is accurate. However, the "final bosses" are there all along; it's just that the whole book is from the perspective of know-nothing mortals, so the veil is pulled back at a snail's pace.
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I read them all too. Still waiting for my prize :(
There is some good stuff in there. And a lot of indistiguishable characters, repetitive themes and re-used plot elements. And his one on one combat scenes are largely rubbish.
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I read them all too. Still waiting for my prize :(
There is some good stuff in there. And a lot of indistiguishable characters, repetitive themes and re-used plot elements. And his one on one combat scenes are largely rubbish.
THIS IS HOW I FELT! I really had a problem keeping the characters names straight. Have not had this problem elsewhere!
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Have had GotM on the to-read list for some time now. Need to focus more on reading and less on being distracted by my gf watching TV.
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Take every opportunity to turn off screens. Do it. And water ;).
By the way, kudos again to Cüréthañ and Meyna for being the only SAers posting here to have graduated Erikson.
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Wait what?! I have graduated Erikson as well :P Still have a hard time trying to understand that one can not love this series if one loves Bakker...but i guess that is situated in the subjective problem we talked about elsewhere ;D
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Lol... sorry Kellais.
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Take every opportunity to turn off screens. Do it. And water ;).
By the way, kudos again to Cüréthañ and Meyna for being the only SAers posting here to have graduated Erikson.
My thanks, though it was no great task for me considering how easily I took to the series as a whole!
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I took up the torch. Finished the first book and really enjoyed it, trying to find some time to read book 2. I'm enjoying it so far, but I put it down a month ago and might have to start over if I don't get to it soon.
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Deadhouse Gates is one of my all-time favorite fantasy books. Mostly because of Duiker.
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Immediately amused that the apocalypse in DG is accompanied by whirlwinds.
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I liked Garden of the Moon but was bored to death with Deadhouse Gates. What am I doing wrong?
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Well, there are like 4 storylines going on at once, and above you mentioned that you couldn't keep the characters straight. I imagine, then, that you weren't invested in any of the characters and simply didn't care what happened. I suppose that is the risk with carrying too many stories at the same time. Maybe you tried to read it whilst being distracted? I tried to listen to GotM as an audiobook and found that it was too easy to miss important information, same thing with DG. I picked up the book and focused on it and found it much more enjoyable.
I don't think you did anything wrong :P as long as you formed your opinion by reading the book and not just basing it on what a review said, then there is no reason to invalidate your opinion.
I'm only about 25% of the way through DG, and really enjoying it. Maybe it gets boring later and I just haven't gotten to that point yet.
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Huh, I did feel really uninterested in the characters (I remember thinking that I didn't find their motivations convincing). OK, next time around, I'll try to read DG without reading too many others at the same time (when will that happen?).
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Though I am not quite finished with Deadhouse Gates, I am sensing a pattern with the books you like Madness. It makes me chuckle a little that both TWP and DG have main characters slogging through deserts. You like sand or something?
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I've read the first 3, with Deadhouse Gates being my favorite. I know it can be jarring, moving to a new set of characters every few hundred pages but that puts the focus entirely on the writing and that's what I like about the series. No boring build up or middle books where the author has to "move the pieces." Just Epic Fantasy with capitals E and F.
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Though I am not quite finished with Deadhouse Gates, I am sensing a pattern with the books you like Madness. It makes me chuckle a little that both TWP and DG have main characters slogging through deserts. You like sand or something?
Lol - sure?
I did have the enviable childhood experience of living about 10 feet from a beautiful beach on Lake Huron for about eight years.
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I've read the first 3, with Deadhouse Gates being my favorite. I know it can be jarring, moving to a new set of characters every few hundred pages but that puts the focus entirely on the writing and that's what I like about the series. No boring build up or middle books where the author has to "move the pieces." Just Epic Fantasy with capitals E and F.
I wouldn't say "jarring", sounds too negative. Its certainly a bit different, and if forces the reader to pay close attention and be fully engaged, or at least thats what I had to do. I think it keep things fresh the whole way through, like you said.
Though I am not quite finished with Deadhouse Gates, I am sensing a pattern with the books you like Madness. It makes me chuckle a little that both TWP and DG have main characters slogging through deserts. You like sand or something?
Lol - sure?
I did have the enviable childhood experience of living about 10 feet from a beautiful beach on Lake Huron for about eight years.
And Dune... You really do like books in the desert, or is the desert a good setting for good books?
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I got a little distracted and didn't move on with Deadhouse Gates, but I'm tempted to go back just on your statements, Madness. And then maybe just maybe try book 3 which is so hyped, but probably the biggest deterrent for me is knowing that it's this massive series that I may not have much interest in seeing through to the end.
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And Dune... You really do like books in the desert, or is the desert a good setting for good books?
Minimalist setting for lazy writers, maybe ;).
I got a little distracted and didn't move on with Deadhouse Gates, but I'm tempted to go back just on your statements, Madness.
Lol - well, I myself only made it to Midnight Tides but up until then I thought it was fairly well done.
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One day I'll reach the end and regale you with stories of lands beyond your horizon.
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Edit: Yeah so I finished. Great series :) . Made a whole thread about it. Highly recommended.
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I don't want to get into those books for the same reason I don't want to get into the wheel of time. That series is just huge and I doubt I would ever ever get through it. Maybe later in life i will give it a shot but for now it is just way too intimidating.
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Yeah I didn't really realize how long the series was when I started, but its highly regarded so I figured I really had to get to it at some point. My list of books to read isn't particularly long right now and I have enjoyed what I have read so far. It was the right time to undertake the journey, I think.
Welcome, Cleaver428, to the second-apocalypse.
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I've read the first 3, with Deadhouse Gates being my favorite. I know it can be jarring, moving to a new set of characters every few hundred pages but that puts the focus entirely on the writing and that's what I like about the series. No boring build up or middle books where the author has to "move the pieces." Just Epic Fantasy with capitals E and F.
I wouldn't say "jarring", sounds too negative. Its certainly a bit different, and if forces the reader to pay close attention and be fully engaged, or at least thats what I had to do. I think it keep things fresh the whole way through, like you said.
Though I am not quite finished with Deadhouse Gates, I am sensing a pattern with the books you like Madness. It makes me chuckle a little that both TWP and DG have main characters slogging through deserts. You like sand or something?
Lol - sure?
I did have the enviable childhood experience of living about 10 feet from a beautiful beach on Lake Huron for about eight years.
And Dune... You really do like books in the desert, or is the desert a good setting for good books?
the desert of death and colors right smack in the middle of The Neverending Story is pretty fucking awesome! also awesome book is awesome generally