[Madness]

I think the issue at hand is less how it happens than what happens.

If we're running literary parallels, then the question is whether Cnaiur et al. are Conphas or Saubon. Regardless whether Achamian was present or not at Shimeh when the Nansur under Conphas showed up, Kellhus clearly planned on Saubon.

We've already wondered whether or not Kellhus knows about Cnaiur - which I think is a better tack. And Cnaiur is clearly an indeterminate factor; the Consult have been stringing him along, which means he's not in their pocket.

It seems pretty likely the Scylvendi are supposed to show up at Golgotterath after the Great Ordeal. The question is whether they are going to pin the Ordeal in against Golgotterath's anvil or help them...

[Blackstone]

I think the issue at hand is less how it happens than what happens.

If we're running literary parallels, then the question is whether Cnaiur et al. are Conphas or Saubon. Regardless whether Achamian was present or not at Shimeh when the Nansur under Conphas showed up, Kellhus clearly planned on Saubon.

We've already wondered whether or not Kellhus knows about Cnaiur - which I think is a better tack. And Cnaiur is clearly an indeterminate factor; the Consult have been stringing him along, which means he's not in their pocket.

It seems pretty likely the Scylvendi are supposed to show up at Golgotterath after the Great Ordeal. The question is whether they are going to pin the Ordeal in against Golgotterath's anvil or help them...

I completely agree. And part of me thinks that Cnaiur won't be able to attack Proyas. I think Kellhus knows Cnaiur is still alive, because there would be no reason to think otherwise. Kellhus left Moe Sr. wounded and at the mercy of a chorae-wielding Cnaiur and some skin spies. I think the most probable eventuality would have been for Cnaiur's victory.
Here's a thought: suppose Kellhus is trying to close the world and establish himself as a god. The Scylvendi side with the GO to destroy Golgotterath. Kellhus becames THE god. Kellhus is now Cnaiur's god.

[profgrape]

I think the issue at hand is less how it happens than what happens.

If we're running literary parallels, then the question is whether Cnaiur et al. are Conphas or Saubon. Regardless whether Achamian was present or not at Shimeh when the Nansur under Conphas showed up, Kellhus clearly planned on Saubon.

We've already wondered whether or not Kellhus knows about Cnaiur - which I think is a better tack. And Cnaiur is clearly an indeterminate factor; the Consult have been stringing him along, which means he's not in their pocket.

It seems pretty likely the Scylvendi are supposed to show up at Golgotterath after the Great Ordeal. The question is whether they are going to pin the Ordeal in against Golgotterath's anvil or help them...

I completely agree. And part of me thinks that Cnaiur won't be able to attack Proyas. I think Kellhus knows Cnaiur is still alive, because there would be no reason to think otherwise. Kellhus left Moe Sr. wounded and at the mercy of a chorae-wielding Cnaiur and some skin spies. I think the most probable eventuality would have been for Cnaiur's victory.
Here's a thought: suppose Kellhus is trying to close the world and establish himself as a god. The Scylvendi side with the GO to destroy Golgotterath. Kellhus becames THE god. Kellhus is now Cnaiur's god.

I've always sort of projected Conan onto Cnaiur and can't imagine him giving a crap about any God.  I'm wondering if his motivation to lead the Scylvendi to help Golgatterath *was* the promise of sacking Ishual.  Now that it's out of the picture, it seems like as likely that he'd go against the Consult for breaking their promise.

[H]

I've always sort of projected Conan onto Cnaiur and can't imagine him giving a crap about any God.  I'm wondering if his motivation to lead the Scylvendi to help Golgatterath *was* the promise of sacking Ishual.  Now that it's out of the picture, it seems like as likely that he'd go against the Consult for breaking their promise.

I don't know, Aurang is usually not a liar.  Chances are Cnaiur just figured he would get to and now realizes he won't.  However, I doubt if he really cares about Proyas or the Great Ordeal, he just wants to kill Kellhus.  I doubt if he'd let Proyas stand between him and that...

[Blackstone]

I've always sort of projected Conan onto Cnaiur and can't imagine him giving a crap about any God.  I'm wondering if his motivation to lead the Scylvendi to help Golgatterath *was* the promise of sacking Ishual.  Now that it's out of the picture, it seems like as likely that he'd go against the Consult for breaking their promise.

I don't know, Aurang is usually not a liar.  Chances are Cnaiur just figured he would get to and now realizes he won't.  However, I doubt if he really cares about Proyas or the Great Ordeal, he just wants to kill Kellhus.  I doubt if he'd let Proyas stand between him and that...

Well, I'm wondering if Kellhus will even be there when the Scylvendi show up.

Cnaiur tells someone in the PoN that he believes Inrithi carry a blood-guilt for killing his god. So I do think he believes in one. I do agree that sacking Ishual was probably his price for helping the Consult, so it will be interesting to see where he goes from here now that he knows it's gone.

[MSJ]

Well, it makes heart sing that Cnaüir is alive. Not how I thought it would happen, but awesome nonetheless. Wow, is he damned or is he damned? I loved the description of the swazond smoking also.

As far as his age and shape that he is in, I simply chalk it up to his relentless attitude and his thirst for vengeance. While I'd love to see him turn into a "hero", I don't buy that happening. Once, the breaker of horses and men has sworn an oath, that is his mission. He wants to kill Kellhus, and while I don't believe he gives two shits about what the Consult wants or his damnation, he's not gonna suddenly realize that Kellhus is doing the "right" thing. If anything, I can see a great confrontation between him and Moe Jr. That be great.

[Madness]

Yeah - Cnaiur tells Kellhus in TDTCB that the Scylvendi believe the Inrithi killed their god, Lokung, whom they made a pact with when Lokung "existed" (?), and now have sworn to murder Inrithi for their Dead-God. Bakker, I believe, semi-verifies on ZTS that Lokung is the No-God.

Cnaiur is nothing but unpredictable, though, right? Breaker-of-Horses-and-Men is back for a few pages and everyone forgets that he is useful because a Dunyain couldn't predict him .

[MSJ]

Cnaiur is nothing but unpredictable, though, right? Breaker-of-Horses-and-Men is back for a few pages and everyone forgets that he is useful because a Dunyain couldn't predict him .

+1, but do anywhere in your soul, believe that he would go back over to Kellhus? Proyas, maybe.....doubtful. I believe vengeance is what he wants.

[Madness]

I believe Cnaiur will do anything he wants because reason is so long out the window with him .