Quote from: themerchant on December 03, 2018, 07:45:35 pm

I understand i'm just not sure what distinguishes the two interpretations. It might be poetic it might be literal.

Nothing more than empirical evidence. Mimara haven't moved the world before. In the Wight incident she exorcised something that didn't belong, and it required the use of a Chorae.

Bakker is prone to being poetic, this would hardly be the first time.

Well she still has the Chorae in fact she has two now, well at that point she did. She did affect reality in the mountain. She forgave Galian (sp?) she also has the ability to know things she cannot know about the material world. This could be an extension of knowledge , just like sorcery is.

She could also see beyond the Chorae as well.

I personally don't think it's conclusive at all.

Quote from: themerchant on November 30, 2018, 09:30:04 am

Sorry it's a sequence before being struck blind


But her gaze lolls away, across the intact Horn soaring upward, silken with sunlight.Slowly,gracefully, she draws the Shroud across it's gracile immensity, for she is- and always has been- a modest whore. The beautiful ones always are, you see. She looks down upon the three desperate souls, as tony beetles clicking across the temple floor. The little Mimara us screaming hands about her burning,cramping, shrieking womb.

Then you read on a couple of pages and get this "Now the shroud had engulfed the High-Horn,...."

Now if i'm correct why is Greater Mimara shrouding the horn?

Ah, got it, thank you!

I took this sequence as a poetic way to describe Mimara's slipping consciousness. She sees events, but she's under such a great amount of stress (not to mention Qirri) that it feels like she is causing them to happen. It's about her state of mind at that moment, not about some supernatural power she possesses.

Even then, in that state, she describes what's happening as "communing with the God of Gods". It's not that she causes things to happen, per se, it's that she imagines herself one with the entity that does.

Well she communes with God as God I think it is.

"The Greater Mimara communes with God as God"

Then literally next line is "Malowebi watched the shroud swallow the void that was light and deliver foetid darkness and gloom. The bottomless vista disappeared , leaving only their small platform stranded upon a vertical plane extending indefinitely in all directions.

The next change of scene also starts with the shroud as well, so it;s mentioned 3 times in a row. Once when "Greater Mimara" might move it. Once when Malowebi on the high horn is relived he can't see shit now and then When Akka is thinking not like this.

Quote from: themerchant on November 25, 2018, 07:10:14 pm

Also Akka must have a reservoir of water inside him.

What do you mean?

Just think how much passion he has felt in his life. Psûkhe seems to have some correlation to hardship/anguish/immense emotions. Just seems if anyone is about to have a Psûkhe based emotional breakdown it must be Akka. Although loads of others might be candidates too, there's a lot of anguish to spread about.

Plus Mimara can make the world answer to her as well. She manipulates the shroud just before she is struck blind by gazing at her belly. Noticed this in a re-read.

Akka is qirri infused but reeling at the moment. He's smarter than he was.

Also Akka must have a reservoir of water inside him.

He can outrun the sranc in the air using magic.

Quote from: themerchant on November 15, 2018, 04:22:05 pm

I'm not really stating the properties of the dimension, as they are completely arbitrary anyway, it's a way to think of where the outside is in relation to our physical forms. It's 90 degrees in a direction our physical forms can't go. Via magic or death though we can move in those directions. Hence why Kellhus doesn't physically enter the outside. his soul does. His actual body just has it eyes rolled up in his head.

Ah, sorry, that is certainly a valid explanatory device, and I agree with the resulting description.

Quote from: themerchant on November 15, 2018, 04:22:05 pm

Although as Robert Penrose said "Space and time are not concepts that can be considered independently of one another"

Oh yes, this is why I very much like this "timeless" thought experiment in TSA.

Yeah just stating how i rationalise it in my head. As to where it is. I don't have the philosophical knowledge to add much to it's properties bar parroting lines from the book, which are vague and scarce.

As you stated it's no surprise my brain uses this model as a couple of decades ago i did my undergraduate in physics although i never went on to work in the industry.

Quote from: themerchant on November 15, 2018, 05:49:16 am

When Saubon dies he falls and stops and hell rises up to meet him all indicating to me a direction and movement in that direction. Same with how hell is described within the arc how there is torsion which again implies direction and twisting in some dimension.

This is a good example of what i was trying to say with dimensions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WjV6MmCyM

I understand what you mean, but our minds would see dimensions even if there is none (even in reality), since they are wired that way, or, more specifically, since this framework of understanding is taught in school, which is why it's useful for explaining concepts to readers. But it's not the only way, and a limited one at that. The Outside is a place of souls, which aren't a physical concept. It's more to do with philosophy and the notion of thought than with the concept of physical space.

Well it's the product of Bakker's mind , the video i posted actually shows we wouldn't see the higher dimensions with our minds, unless in specific circumstances.

Kellhus explains the soul using dimensions as well to Akka, imagine you could get the depth of an ocean "inside" you. Also the 5th dimension would be like looking at time from a singularity. You'd see the heat death of the universe from start to finish. The whole pattern would be laid out.

"Kellhus nodded, his expression at once cryptic and bemused. "Imagine," he said, "that you could take the Great Ocean, in all its immensity, and fold it into the form and proportion of a man. There are depths, Akka, that go in rather than down — in without limit. What you call the Outside lies within us, and it's everywhere. This is why, no matter where we stand, it's always here. No matter where we dare tread, we always stand in the same place."

I've always thought that the outside was another dimension that we physically can't turn and walk into. That's why Bakker uses Orthogonal, the outside is everywhere length breadth height and time are like a 5th dimension. The Ciphrang godling in the arc just had the ability to move in that direction and go back to the outside. Also since it's at Orthogonal to time as well that means can see all time as well. If you imagine a 2D creature or an ant on a huge mobius loop, walking for ever. It would look to the ant it was walking in a straight line. but to someone able to perceive 3 dimensions it would actually be walking in a figure of 8 as we could see the whole.

Do they ship to UK? I'll ask here while i browse more and try and find out.

EDIT: Looks like they do.